Comment

Comment by Jamie on May 15, 2009 at 11:50am

Facts in the speech like points 1 thru 10 don't matter. I don't think so. With 35 years of hindsight, it would be fair to say Mr. Welch was speaking the truth that the U.S was being manuvered (with devestating effects on its wellbeing). His ideas presented in this speech on how to tackle the Illuminati mafia plans remains the best even today.

You can take your NWO shenanigans and go elsewhere. The strawman arguments that you keep presenting is showing you as a NWO lapdog.

Comment by Ernie on May 15, 2009 at 10:30am

Jamie...The issue is whether Welch was ACCURATE in his comments. According to the FBI, based upon their investigations and informants and data from other independent sources the answer was NO. In addition, GIANTS within the conservative and anti-communist communities arrived at the same judgment -- and MANY of those persons were personal friends and acquaintances of Welch and they supported the same persons, organizations and causes which he did. In fact, many of them wrote articles and books which were recommended by Welch for their acumen about communist matters! You can ignore factual data if you like. You can use meaningless comments like "everyone knows". But it doesn't change the FACT that Welch was gravely mistaken. See, for example, the historic precedent-setting libel lawsuit which Welch lost, Gertz vs. Robert Welch Inc. The JBS paid Gertz $400,000 for their libel and its own lawyer (!) Clyde J. Watts admitted during an answer to a question before the U.S. Supreme Court that "falsehoods" were contained in the JBS magazine article about Gertz!! FACTS MATTER. ACCURATE HISTORY MATTERS. Mistaken ideas, if believed, usually have undesirable consequences.

Comment by Jamie on May 10, 2009 at 11:54pm

Robert Welch must be a bad boy. Oh my. Look what he said - "Everybody that is except a numerically small clique of power lusting conspirators ( NWO ) who have somehow inflicted themselves on a gullible world...". Everyone knows the NWO are the parasites who are sucking the world. To expose these conspirators in 1974 or even mention such a possibility must have taken no small courage. It's expected that such a man and his position would be maligned because of his views on the NWO.

Comment by Ernie on May 9, 2009 at 11:37am

Jamie -- it is Robert WELCH, not Welsh.

Furthermore, I wonder if you are aware of the full scope of what he believed?. The comments by Welch which you quote are generalizations which could be applied to ANYTHING somebody does not like.

Therefore, I am copying below what Mr. Welch told the first meeting of his JBS National Council on January 9, 1960 in Chicago so you can understand the SPECIFIC DETAILS of what he meant.

Consequently, the relevant question becomes, DO YOU AGREE with this evaluation?

“From a careful and realistic study of the mountainous pile of evidence that is there for all to see, certain terrifying conclusions are objectively inescapable. Among them are:
(1) The Communists are winning their large victories, as they always have, through the cumulative effect of small gains;
(2) They make these gains chiefly through the conniving assistance of many of the very diplomats and officials who are supposed to be opposing them;
(3) Communist influences are now in almost complete working control of our government;
(4) And hence, the United States Government is today, as it has been for many years, the most important and powerful single force promoting the world-wide Communist advance.”
[A Confidential Report To Members Of The COUNCIL of The John Birch Society – minutes of 1/9/60 meeting held at Union League Club in Chicago IL, page 1-2; minutes signed by Robert Welch.]

Furthermore:

"Today, gentlemen, I can assure you, without the slightest doubt in my own mind, that the takeover at the top is, for all practical purposes, virtually complete. Whether you like it or not, or whether you believe it or not, our Federal Government is already, literally in the hands of the Communists." [Ibid, page 2]

"In our two states with the largest population, New York and California...already the two present Governors are almost certainly actual Communists...Our Congress now contains a number of men like Adam Clayton Powell of New York and Charles Porter of Oregon, who are certainly actual Communists, and plenty more who are sympathetic to Communist purposes for either ideological or opportunistic reasons." [Ibid, page 7]
[Note: the reference to Governors refers to Edmund G. Brown of California and Nelson Rockefeller of New York.]

"In the Senate, there are men like Stephen Young of Ohio, and Wayne Morse of Oregon, McNamara of Michigan, and Clifford Case of New Jersey and Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota and Estes Kefauver of Tennessee and John F. Kennedy of Massachusetts, whom it is utter folly to think of as just liberals. Every one of those men is either an actual Communist or so completely a Communist sympathizer or agent that it makes no practical difference..." [Ibid, page 8]

“Our Supreme Court, dominated by Earl Warren and Felix Frankfurter and Hugo Black, is so visibly pro-Communist that no argument is even needed…And our federal courts below that level…are in many cases just as bad.” [Ibid, page 8]

"Our State Department is loaded with Communists from top to bottom, to the extent that our roll call of Ambassadors almost sounds like a list somebody has put together to start a Communist front." ... [Ibid, page 8]

""It is estimated from many reliable sources that from 70% to 90% of the responsible personnel in the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare are Communists. Our Central Intelligence Agency under Allen Dulles is nothing more or less than an agency to promote Communism throughout the world...Almost all the other Departments are loaded with Communists and Communist sympathizers. And this generalization most specifically does include our whole Defense Department." [Ibid, page 8]

Comment by Jamie on May 9, 2009 at 2:37am

Continued.

5. We should get government out of the areas and activities where government does not belong. Again all steps to this end should be taken gradually but nevertheless just as rapidly as enough of the American people can be persuaded by such progress. Any such achievement shall truly require a massive educational force. Thats exactly what we hope to build during the next 15 years.

We could go ahead with at least a 100 numbered items but the John Birch society will undoubtedly be working on mare than that many specific projects which will be laid out in its bulletins before another 180 months will rolled around. And all of these all of these projects will fit into a general pattern indicated by the 5 major objectives listed above. So lets wind up this marathon monologue with one final thought. None of us can guarantee anything about what the future will bring but the speaker knows what the job is before us to rid our country of the courage of communism within the next few years and then to go ahead on our constructive programs so well that in 15 years from now we shall already be entering an era of far less government and a much sounder sense of responsibility and with Gods help of a better world. But I sincerely believe that it can be done and this much I know that every man and woman in this audience should leave here tonight feeling in his or her own mind that it can and must be done. Then it sure will be. And so all of you patriots of good character, good conscience and noble ideals whom we can reach with the films version of this speech in a thousand other audiences. Its is a great deal of confidence and energizing will to win that we invite you to join us in our epic undertaking. And for all of you great wonderful friends in this present audience, I certainly extend my very deep thanks indeed for so much patience and attention. Thank you and good night.

Now, Which part of the message do you agree and not agree. I hope this is not complicated. Please be specific to the points made in this message. No circular arguments there.

The points made in this speech are relevant to the present times as the times which it was made. I would presume, the NWO infiltrated the John Birch society to reduce its capacity to execute these stated goals. That's their MO to reduce the effectiveness for any opposition groups.

Comment by Jamie on May 9, 2009 at 2:25am

Lets try this again.

March 9, 1974. Robert Welsh referring to JBS founding meeting about the insiders long-range plans.

A part of that plan (by the insiders) of course is to induce to gradual surrender of American sovereignty piece by piece, step by step to various international organizations of which the United Nations is the outstanding but far from the only example.
Here are the idioms for the United States.
1. Greatly expanded government spending , for every conceivable means of getting rid of ever larger sums of American money as wastefully as possible.
2. Higher and then much higher taxes
3. An increasingly unbalanced budget despite the higher taxes
4. Wild inflation of our currency
5. Government controls of prices, wages and materials supposedly to combat inflation
6. Greatly increased socialistic controls of over operation of our economy and every activity of our daily lives. This is to be accompanied naturally and automatically by a correspondingly a huge increase in the size of our bureaucracy and in both the cost and reach of our domestic government
7. Far more centralization of power in Washington and the practical elimination of our state lines. There is a many faceted drive at work
to have our state lines no more within the nation than our county lines do now within the states.
8. A steady advance of federally and control over our education system leading to complete federalization of our public education.
9. A constant hammering into the American consciousness of the horror of modern warfare. The beauties and the absolute necessity of peace. Peace always on communist terms of course and
10. The consequent willingness of the American people to allow the steps of appeasement by our government which amount to a piece meal surrender of the rights to a free world of the United States itself.

Cut. Speech at the 1974 Council Dinner, looking 15 years into the future.

So firstly, crush the insiders dust out of your eyes my friends and the communist soapsuds out of your brain and ask yourselves in all honesty "What on earth is wrong with United States minding its own business. Or with having foreign policy function primarily for the safety and benefit of the American people ?". Which is exactly what we had done for the first 140 years of our existence as a nation to the incredible advantage of ourselves and everybody else. Everybody that is except a numerically small clique of power lusting conspirators who have somehow inflicted themselves on a gullible world.

We turn to a brief summarization of what we hope the John Birch Society will help and even sometimes lead the American people to accomplish during the next 15 years.

1. Our first and most important specific undertaking should be to restore the complete independence of the United States. This includes our resolution to get us out of the United Nations and get the United Nations out of the United States.
2. We must once again make our money freely redeemable in gold at some realistic price and we must make all practicable legislative steps to prevent a recurrence of the enormous thievery and other subversive crimes that have been perpetrated on the American people through a contrived inflation by every American president from Franklin Roosevelt through Richard Nixon.
3. We must reduce the number of government bureaus and government employees and the whole quantity of government by at least 50% and we should achieve at least this much reduction in proper fashion through gradually convincing the majority of American people of the wisdom of such a course.
4. We should withdraw all American troops from every spot on earth which is not American soil except when and where such troops will be required as decided by Congress to protect American lives and property from criminal vandalism.
5. We should get government out of the areas and activities where government does not belong. Again all steps to this end should be taken gradually but nevertheless just as rap

Comment by Ernie on May 8, 2009 at 5:18pm

I am curious about what you mean by "personal qualities and affiliation to JBS" and what you think is something which amounts to name-calling. For example, in your paragraph about the NWO, you make derogatory assertions which amount to a circular argument. A circular argument states a premise and then proceeds from the assumption that the premise is truthful and accurate in all its specifics. Consequently, there is no way to falsify the argument because its premises are not open to examination.

If, for example, somebody brings data to your attention that does not conform to your initial premise, then you can instantly dismiss or devalue it by labeling it an attempt by a NWO adherent to discuss "personal qualities" or "call names".

Let me give a specific example. Both Robert Welch and many JBS officials are on record numerous times effusively praising what they described as the indisputable intelligence, judgment, and patriotism of J. Edgar Hoover and the institution he headed. [See for example the October 1966 issue of American Opinion magazine, for article entitled "The Wisdom and Warning of J. Edgar Hoover".]

OK -- so we are told that we can rely upon Hoover and the FBI during his tenure for reliable, authoritative, accurate information.

BUT -- as a consequence of FBI documents and files which have been released pursuant to Freedom of Information Act requests, we now know that both Hoover and senior FBI officials within the Bureau's Domestic Intelligence Division routinely described Robert Welch and the Birch Society in FBI internal memos as "extremist", "irrational", "irresponsible", "lunatic fringe" and "fanatics".

Furthermore (and this is critical) FBI documents reveal that the Bureau investigated many of the persons and organizations which the JBS described as part of the NWO -- or, their applicable terminology at that time, "Insiders" who were part of a conspiratorial and elitist plot to eviscerate our Constitution and establish a one-world socialist dictatorship. HOWEVER, the FBI investigations often repudiated the conclusions reached by the JBS. Let me give one specific example for your review.

After the 1965 Watts Riots in Los Angeles, Gary Allen wrote an article which the JBS published in its magazine wherein Gary made very serious allegations about subversives who were responsible for the planning and execution of the riots. Gary claimed that the Los Angeles Police Department referred to this group of Communists and Communist sympathizers as "The Organization" -- and they were responsible for the riot.

BY CONTRAST: The FBI came to the conclusion that there was NO planning or involvement by subversives in the rioting. Now--what did they base their conclusions upon? Three things: (1) 22 informants within the Communist Party in Los Angeles and (2) the Los Angeles Police Department Intelligence Division investigation and (3) other data from local and state law enforcement entities.

THEREFORE, in conclusion, given this factual evidence, it would be entirely reasonable and accurate and proper to characterize the JBS article by Gary Allen as "inflammatory", "false", "extremist", "irrational" or other derogatory terms --- which somebody might consider "name calling" or "calling into question the personal qualities and affiliation to John Birch Society". Nevertheless, it is FACTUAL DATA which has to be taken into consideration -- UNLESS -- your position is that believing and/or circulating false information does not adversely affect our ability to make accurate and rational evaluations about controversial matters??

For an 80-page report on the JBS which is based, primarily, upon first-time-released FBI files and documents about numerous different topics discussed by the JBS, see:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-1

More info about my research: http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/home -- or contact me at: ernie1241@aol.com