Transhumanism debunked: Why drinking the Kurzweil Kool-Aid will only make you dead, not immortal - 12160 Social Network2024-03-28T19:52:16Zhttps://12160.info/forum/topics/transhumanism-debunked-why-drinking-the-kurzweil-kool-aid-will?groupUrl=transhumanist-agenda&feed=yes&xn_auth=notag:12160.info,2013-06-29:2649739:Comment:12440452013-06-29T14:36:16.317ZMaria De Windhttps://12160.info/profile/MariaDeWind
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1933611878?profile=original"><img class="align-center" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1933611878?profile=original" width="670"/></a></p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1933611878?profile=original"><img class="align-center" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1933611878?profile=original" width="670"/></a></p> Finally someone who speaks En…tag:12160.info,2013-06-27:2649739:Comment:12410162013-06-27T04:51:56.494ZCryptocurrencyhttps://12160.info/profile/KRYPKE32
<p>Finally someone who speaks English.</p>
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<p>An atheistic Freemason? Never heard of such a thing. Jot or tittle? That's like, 16th century New Testament vernacular. Throw in a little kerjigger and you my friend are quite an interesting contradiction.</p>
<p>No Demolay huh? Are you sublime prince or double headed eagle? Or perhaps more apropos, a phoenix. I've studied the mystery schools off and on for about 10 years and much more closely these last few years. In fact I venture…</p>
<p>Finally someone who speaks English.</p>
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<p>An atheistic Freemason? Never heard of such a thing. Jot or tittle? That's like, 16th century New Testament vernacular. Throw in a little kerjigger and you my friend are quite an interesting contradiction.</p>
<p>No Demolay huh? Are you sublime prince or double headed eagle? Or perhaps more apropos, a phoenix. I've studied the mystery schools off and on for about 10 years and much more closely these last few years. In fact I venture impavidly, though with circumspect, instructing the partially incorrigible muggles the greater and lesser mystifications. From thrice greatests and the pymander, ascending on up through the spheres and back. I keep a fairly low profile inundated with the enticements of antiquity while the herds lumber about as I study independently and virtually unnoticed by the wizards and warlocks of temporal power and hubla-hoo. Though occasionally they do bust my balls with advertisements passively mirroring mine in jest while I transcend the space time continuum ;)</p>
<p>I'm surprised after many years of myth and golden fleece you have yet to have an 'experience' providing any confirmation of the super sensible. I had experiences, mostly as a carpet muncher that I long pushed from memory for lack of a mature rationale or logical explanation. It wasn't until the last few years that I realized what I had experienced and, well, embraced it. </p>
<p>Not being bound by the consecration of oath, I pursue gnosis of craft in Manly P fashion mindful of the potentiality of my indiscretions as a downtrodden trafficker of esoteric secrets getting me in trouble. So I cherry pick my studious registrants carefully.</p>
<p>Your profile pic is badass btw.</p>
<p></p> Oops have I been missing some…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12400162013-06-26T06:47:10.983ZMaria De Windhttps://12160.info/profile/MariaDeWind
<p>Oops have I been missing some fun here?</p>
<p>re re (1) has no relation to my comment about the location of the mind which author limits to the brain, and it is a well documented fact in medical literature ( and I'm not going to bother fishing it out for anyone because quite frankly I have much better things to do) that what you state is not true. Transplantees do exhibit memories AND personality traits from often unknown to them anonymous donors and as for simple removal of organs I'd…</p>
<p>Oops have I been missing some fun here?</p>
<p>re re (1) has no relation to my comment about the location of the mind which author limits to the brain, and it is a well documented fact in medical literature ( and I'm not going to bother fishing it out for anyone because quite frankly I have much better things to do) that what you state is not true. Transplantees do exhibit memories AND personality traits from often unknown to them anonymous donors and as for simple removal of organs I'd wonder why so many amputees end up requiring psycological therapy often for years if their personality or mind hadn't been altered by the loss?</p>
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<p>re re (2) the point of the article is someone selling immortality through transfer into a computer which would imply immortal computers, so your comment about the obvious mortality of organic bodies is absolutely ludicrous</p>
<p>and about the addenda do you mean that "an impact on the person's life and worldview" does not imply a significant alteration of their mind / personality ?</p>
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<p>Perhaps my use of the phrase " to <span style="text-decoration: underline;">what ancient indians</span> called "chakras" triggered your diatribe , note <span class="st">that same are now called Endocrine Glands, and Autonomic <em>Neural Plexuses</em> what do you think would happen if yours got "dinged" <em><br/></em></span></p> I think that when it's all bo…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12400722013-06-26T06:17:00.166ZHieronymous Anonymoushttps://12160.info/profile/HieronymousAnonymous
<p>I think that when it's all boiled down, the 'real secret' of the New World Order is that <strong>they</strong> know that their hold on power is extremely tenuous. They are desperately keen that we peons don't figure out that they have almost no idea what they're doing - and this 'internet' kerjigger is the second-biggest dispeller-on-nonsense in human history (the first and still the biggest dispeller-of-nonsense was Cynicism).</p>
<p>Anyhow... according to my worldview, it is the…</p>
<p>I think that when it's all boiled down, the 'real secret' of the New World Order is that <strong>they</strong> know that their hold on power is extremely tenuous. They are desperately keen that we peons don't figure out that they have almost no idea what they're doing - and this 'internet' kerjigger is the second-biggest dispeller-on-nonsense in human history (the first and still the biggest dispeller-of-nonsense was Cynicism).</p>
<p>Anyhow... according to my worldview, it is the understanding that all their power is fake that makes 'powerful' people involve themselves in occultism and other such falderol: they may not believe in a single jot or tittle of it, but they're prepared to engage in ridiculous shenanigans if there's some chance that there is an actual potential source of additional power there to be exploited.(Also, the 'powerful' tend to be very gullible themselves... look at the herd mentality in funds management).</p>
<p>Seen in this context, the 'New World Order' stuff becomes so much stage-managed eyewash and hoobla-hoo.</p>
<p>And sure, the people involved get mind-bogglingly rich - almost always by funneling taxes to themselves - but it's not 'magic' and requires no supernatural explanation (it's the same reason that religious leaders have lived in Palaces since Ancient Egypt... "the peasants are gullible and can be fleeced by anybody who turns up offering themselves as sole-intermediary between Man and God").</p>
<p>I certainly won't ever fall for any of the charade of politics - unlike a lot of folks I spent a goodly part of my academic life learning about the literal impossibility of finding 'social' optima through political means: I can recite the 'big 3' Impossibility Theorems (Arrow, Gibbard-Satterthwait and Hölmstrom) by heart, and don't even get me started on the principal-agent problem.</p>
<p>For the record: I'm a Freemason, and have been involved in the Craft and other 'higher' orders for my entire adult life. I'm also a militant anarchist and a militant atheist (outside of the US, the idea that every Freemason must believe in a personal 'God' is seen as stupid and quintessentially American). Full disclosure: I'm also a vegetarian lol.</p> I'm not 'up to speed' with th…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12400672013-06-26T05:44:45.089ZHieronymous Anonymoushttps://12160.info/profile/HieronymousAnonymous
<p>I'm not 'up to speed' with the latest stuff promulgated by the Kurzweil folks, but from my reading of it there is not the slightest suggestion of compulsion: for that sort of nonsense you need governments.</p>
<p>Nobody is required to have an internet connection (or a specific ISP, or a specific computer, or a specific brand of chocolate biscuits), and the natural progression of the Kurzweilian idea is private-sector oriented and therefore liberty-enhancing.</p>
<p>Of course if the parasitic…</p>
<p>I'm not 'up to speed' with the latest stuff promulgated by the Kurzweil folks, but from my reading of it there is not the slightest suggestion of compulsion: for that sort of nonsense you need governments.</p>
<p>Nobody is required to have an internet connection (or a specific ISP, or a specific computer, or a specific brand of chocolate biscuits), and the natural progression of the Kurzweilian idea is private-sector oriented and therefore liberty-enhancing.</p>
<p>Of course if the parasitic goons that run the State take it upon themselves to monopolise it, then all bets are off - but as with anything, the evil does not come from the tech... it comes from the fact that the worst of the scum rises to the <b>top</b> of the political stew (especially under democracy).</p>
<p>Kurzweil's worldview really goes back to Drexler's "Engines of Creation" from the late 80's, and from there all the way back to Feynman's 1959 talk "There's PLENTY of Room at the Bottom". Feynman in particular was no respecter of officeholders (although I confess a profound disdain for his involvement in the Manhattan Project).</p>
<p>Here's the thing: Kurzweil seems to have been profoundly affect by the loss of his Dad at a relatively young age, and his 'vision' involves (in part) some idea that if you have enough information about a person (including other people's memories of that person), you can get a decent estimate of what that person was 'like'... and if you have enough processing grunt behind it, you can build a virtual person who will be a decent approximation of the 'target'. To put it bluntly, part of his motivation is to try to 'get to know' his Dad - even so, that does not invalidate the idea.</p>
<p>And in any case, what he's proposing is not terribly far-fetched (no more far-fetched than powered flight was in the Age of Steam), assuming that what we (think we) know about the way brains work, is true.</p>
<p>And let's face it - we ALL form conclusions about what we think other people are like, based on 'partial' (and often indirect) information about their actions. For example I think Dick Cheney and Obama are both despicable blood-drenched baby-killing parasites - I've never met either of them, but it seems clear to me from their actions that I am not far from the mark.</p>
<p>Imagine if you were living before the telegraph was invented, and someone told you that in the future it would be possible to send 10,000 books across the planet in ten minutes (leave out the distinction between paper books and ePub/PDF: the important thing is the information in them). You would think they were out of their tiny minds. And yet here we are.</p> You come from a very logical…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12402172013-06-26T05:18:27.478ZCryptocurrencyhttps://12160.info/profile/KRYPKE32
<p>You come from a very logical standpoint though your view is narrow. The notion of chakras my not be as hokey and primitive as you think. There is no doubt volumes of new age nonsense that could rival the misinformation that science has erroneously espoused time and time again. Tough to argue with that. But because you have narrowed it down to science verses religion, tells me you have missed something profoundly key in anyone's advanced understanding of the real secrets of the New World…</p>
<p>You come from a very logical standpoint though your view is narrow. The notion of chakras my not be as hokey and primitive as you think. There is no doubt volumes of new age nonsense that could rival the misinformation that science has erroneously espoused time and time again. Tough to argue with that. But because you have narrowed it down to science verses religion, tells me you have missed something profoundly key in anyone's advanced understanding of the real secrets of the New World Order/Global Elite. I would liken it to left verses right politics. If you fall for any facet of either party's archetype, you have failed to understand the true nature of what it is you adhere to.</p>
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<p>Interesting to see what your response will be. </p> Ahh haha, your analytics are…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12400632013-06-26T04:59:55.204ZCryptocurrencyhttps://12160.info/profile/KRYPKE32
<p>Ahh haha, your analytics are comical. Though I don't entirely agree with you on several points. Clearly you are an atheist, which I find as interesting as the religious follower. I find people who reason through a filter of absolutes to be intriguing just for the simple fact that you are truly convinced of your truth and you defend it vehemently. While I certainly do not agree with your presuppositions regarding the intention of Mike Adams article, I do like that you have strong…</p>
<p>Ahh haha, your analytics are comical. Though I don't entirely agree with you on several points. Clearly you are an atheist, which I find as interesting as the religious follower. I find people who reason through a filter of absolutes to be intriguing just for the simple fact that you are truly convinced of your truth and you defend it vehemently. While I certainly do not agree with your presuppositions regarding the intention of Mike Adams article, I do like that you have strong convictions. </p>
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<p>I guess ultimately the question becomes, if you could "download consciousness" would it still be you are would it be a replication? Quantum physicists have postulated that if, for instance, the transporters from Star Trek were real, that it would most likely not transport you. Your physical anatomy would be deconstructed on the transporting end, and an exact clone of you would be constructed on the receiving end. So instead of transporting a human being, you would most likely be cloning, a human being. The person being transported would cease to exist, and an exact clone would be constructed on the other end.</p> Sorry Maria, but your list of…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12401262013-06-26T04:42:59.132ZHieronymous Anonymoushttps://12160.info/profile/HieronymousAnonymous
<p>Sorry Maria, but your list of points makes no sense whatsoever.</p>
<p>re (1): you can remove and replace almost every part of a human - legs, eyes, fingers, spleens, stomachs, heart/lungs/livers/kidneys... without changing the individual's personality (or mind). "Chakras" are a primitive people's pre-scientific attempt to understand the nervous system - you fall for the standard New Age fallacy of imbuing primitive Eastern nonsense with a significance it does not merit.</p>
<p>re (2): human…</p>
<p>Sorry Maria, but your list of points makes no sense whatsoever.</p>
<p>re (1): you can remove and replace almost every part of a human - legs, eyes, fingers, spleens, stomachs, heart/lungs/livers/kidneys... without changing the individual's personality (or mind). "Chakras" are a primitive people's pre-scientific attempt to understand the nervous system - you fall for the standard New Age fallacy of imbuing primitive Eastern nonsense with a significance it does not merit.</p>
<p>re (2): human bodies break down too - often in ways that can't be fixed regardless of what you try to put in your 'chakras'. They freeze and overheat (they need to operate in a smaller temperature range than a motor vehicle: you can die in temperatures where you car will still run). As for vulnerability to viruses - you do know that the name 'virus' started in the health sciences, right?</p>
<p>(3) didn't say anything.</p>
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<p>One additional note about my comment re your (1) - obviously removing an individual's leg/arm/eye/hearing etc has an impact on the person's life and worldview, but that impact is <strong>not</strong> because they're losing a bit of their mind or because one of their 'chakras' got dinged. People understand that the loss of a limb or important organ means reduced functionality, which gives them reduced expectations (and disabled folks' attempts at self-delusion don't work long-term) - in the opposite direction, heart-lung (and kidney and liver) transplant recipients understand that they will have augmented functionality, and so they respond with an uplifted 'affect'.</p> This is silly spiritualistic…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12400582013-06-26T04:31:35.882ZHieronymous Anonymoushttps://12160.info/profile/HieronymousAnonymous
<p>This is silly spiritualistic nonsense dressed up as a 'debunking' of Kurzweil's ideas, with the usual sophomoric "Kurzweil is a cult like [insert name of silly cult]'.</p>
<p>And the core 'argument' is that we can't replicate the 'soul'?</p>
<p>Are we in kindergarten? Next up: "angels disprove the theory of relativity".</p>
<p>The idea of a 'soul' is the same primitive drivel as the idea of a 'god' (or gods): it is shorthand for "bits of universe that we don't understand", and appeals to…</p>
<p>This is silly spiritualistic nonsense dressed up as a 'debunking' of Kurzweil's ideas, with the usual sophomoric "Kurzweil is a cult like [insert name of silly cult]'.</p>
<p>And the core 'argument' is that we can't replicate the 'soul'?</p>
<p>Are we in kindergarten? Next up: "angels disprove the theory of relativity".</p>
<p>The idea of a 'soul' is the same primitive drivel as the idea of a 'god' (or gods): it is shorthand for "bits of universe that we don't understand", and appeals to people who can't come to grips with the idea the knowledge at any point in time is subject to constraints - people who need some 'catch-all' to furnish immediate answers.</p>
<p>What we think of as 'personality' emerges through experience: that is to say, that what makes each of us 'us' is simply the sum of our experiences (how we <strong>react</strong> to our experiences is embedded in that).</p>
<p>inb4 "Well, these two people had identical life-experiences and they're quite different". <em>Bzzzt</em>... No two people on earth have EVER had identical life-experiences.</p>
<p>Once we have processed our experiences (and our personalities have adapted as a result) the resultant change is recorded (badly) for recall (problematically) in the ~3lb of amazing squishy technology inside our skulls. Proof: you can cut off or replace almost any part of a human without affecting their memory... but start poking around in that 3lb of squishy stuff and shit gets real. (That deals with the ludicrous notion that 'the mind' is a 'whole body' idea: we currently have no idea what the mind actually is, but it's reasonably clear that it's located in the brain).</p>
<p>Here's the thing that makes Kurzweilian "brain uploading" not remotely like "Heaven's Gate" or Scientology: the physical body does not have to be destroyed once the upload is happening (this is not [insert stupid TV show or movie] with the simulant where you have to destroy the mind in order to replicate it).</p>
<p>So there's the key difference: people will be able to test if the 'new them' is an accurate reflection of themselves <em>as <strong>they</strong> view themselves</em>, before any 'final' decision. They will be able to accumulate additional 'meatbag' experiences, and choose whether or not to 'update' their non-meatbag version(s) to examine for divergences.</p>
<p>Myself, I would keep my meatbag, and maintain at least 3 non-meatbag versions:</p>
<ul>
<li>one that replicated my current 'state' precisely;</li>
<li>one that got updated daily with experiences but not my responses to them (to check how the non-meatbag responded to meatbag-stimuli); and</li>
<li>one that simply adapted endogenously and had no 'meatbag-life' to speak of.</li>
</ul>
<p>That way I would be able to establish whether a non-meatbag version of 'me' responded identically to identical experiences, and whether I would be happier overall as a non-meatbag.</p>
<p>Seriously... this piece is so packed with anti-scientific whackery that it may as well be a 13th century religiotard blathering about how heliocentrists ought to be burned at the stake.</p> My thoughts... If anyOne wan…tag:12160.info,2013-06-26:2649739:Comment:12400542013-06-26T04:30:58.118ZAmaterasu Solarhttps://12160.info/profile/AmaterasuSolar
<p>My thoughts... If anyOne wants to do all this transhumanist creppola, I think They should have at it ... <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">BUT</span></strong> no One should <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>HAVE</strong></span> to do it.</p>
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<p>My thoughts... If anyOne wants to do all this transhumanist creppola, I think They should have at it ... <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">BUT</span></strong> no One should <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>HAVE</strong></span> to do it.</p>
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