Regarding promotion of other social sites on 12160

We have once again made a decision not to allow the promotion of other social sites here. For the newbies, we made this decision because there has been and are so many different members here with their own social sites that it has become an issue.

We see it as splitting up our members and hurting the growth of the site by replicating what's already available right here. We are a social network and we don't need more like us.


We see promotion of other social sites, going off site for our radio shows and seperate chat rooms as contrary to this sites goals such as growing membership, increasing member activities and dialog as well as retaining our current membership.

Over all our thought is it is intentionally or not divisive .

When some one new joins up, often they see our success, and whether concisely or not they want to replicate it in their own way by creating another social site.

The recent decision was prompted when a newer member to the site did promote a social network. They were asked to keep it on their profile page and not promote it on the main pages.

This member took this as direct censorship and violation of their rights.

We disagree. Its a public space versus private space issue. This site is private, like our home, and the family its members. We are not a public place like your local park, or your city hall and you simply do not have the right to claim such an infringement.

You certainly have rules for visitors to your house and it would not be violating their rights to ask them to leave if they were disrupting your exercise of freedom.

Would you demand your neighbor place a campaign ad in the window of their house for a candidate they would never vote for? Would they be infringing on your rights for saying no?

Don't take it personally, we don't.

It isn't about egos or personalities, its about a self preservation and advancement.

With three years under its belt, this site and a core group of people have decided that this is their home, to meet, organize and advance our common goals. And its our collective feeling that keeping people here on this site, and not having them diverted to other locations, particularly social networks is what's been part of our current success.

Your comments welcomed!

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What seems to work best for me is to bite my tongue and keep focused on our mission. Time is so valuable. (I feel a song coming on).

im trying to stay out of this but i kinda agree with this.

They Live said:
Lol, Upon reading and realising exactly what kind of site this really is i have no choice but to express my own personal views on the situation.Although i respect that this site has to be run the way the admins see fit which is their own personal business and choice i do feel that this kind of action is limiting to your growth and not beneficial. I know for a fact that this site gets spammed all over the internet by certain individuals or has done so in the past for sure! Its very hypocritical to expect a different scenario from others when they see this. It is my personal belief that every free thinking human being on this planet should have the right to watch, listen, hang out, and promote whatever they feel like among friends and that is what real freedom is all about! It is laughable to me that a site which promotes itself as a resisting tyranny can take this kind of action but like i say it is down to the controllers of the site to do as they see fit.I know for a fact that such censorship and limitation is not what life is all about and i myself will never adhere to such restraints ever and it is my guess that many others feel the same but dont have the courage to say. It will be interesting to see how long this comment stays up as i have no doubt its damaging to the egoic mind of the admins to have a member criticly think outside of this sites restraints. I believe that everybody , every site and every piece of freedom fighting literature, video, film, radio or whatever should be available to all and that is what real freedom of expression is all about. I wish the site well as i know its part of that very structure but i fear it is shooting itself firmly in the foot with events of late. I will sign off by quoting you cannot defend freedm abroad by deserting it at home!! Later
They Live said:
Lol, Upon reading and realising exactly what kind of site this really is i have no choice but to express my own personal views on the situation.

-I was hoping you would add your thoughts and appreciate it TL

Although i respect that this site has to be run the way the admins see fit which is their own personal business and choice i do feel that this kind of action is limiting to your growth and not beneficial.

--It seems you contradict yourself later in this reply TL. Curious if you read all the post and comments before commenting? We are a private site, and this isn't censorship. Read the other comments above please regarding this. So you realize we have the right to run the site as we wish , but, when a policy goes against a friend of yours (and yes I believe you have let this bias confuse the issue) it is now censorship. Again, your own comments in this reply seems contradictory to me.

I know for a fact that this site gets spammed all over the internet by certain individuals or has done so in the past for sure! Its very hypocritical to expect a different scenario from others when they see this.

--Yes I and perhaps a few others do spam the site around. However, every site that I visit has their own policies and I do not cry censorship if they ask me to stop. I in-fact have never been asked to stop once. I show respect by being an active member of these other sites as well as participate in their discussions. If all I did is stop by and pimp this site, obviously it would be apparent that my effort was to take way from their site to the benefit of ours. It is a fine balance, and so far I seem to have found it.


It is my personal belief that every free thinking human being on this planet should have the right to watch, listen, hang out, and promote whatever they feel like among friends and that is what real freedom is all about!

--We see ourselves as much more than a place to hang out. Perhaps many only do this here , and perhaps thats all they desire however the rest of us, particularly the core members/ founders see this site as an organized resistance. Call it an army, a collective, what ever. To be effective we decided we must be structured in a way that benefits our common goals despite the various agendas and desires of the individuals. Let go your egos!

It is laughable to me that a site which promotes itself as a resisting tyranny can take this kind of action but like i say it is down to the controllers of the site to do as they see fit.

I know for a fact that such censorship and limitation is not what life is all about and i myself will never adhere to such restraints ever and it is my guess that many others feel the same but dont have the courage to say.

--Again not censorship. This post is here so others may add their thoughts. Despite the rumors and unlike the chat rooms, no comments or member moderation happens on the site. To often many see the chatango chat and 12160.org as one in the same. It isn't. Most people on chatango could not give two f's for what we are doing on the site, and they offer little to zero contribution to the site. I can only assume they are just lonely and looking for like minded people The censorship as you call or moderation in the chat is an attempt to keep our members and goals forward thinking and issue focused.

It will be interesting to see how long this comment stays up as i have no doubt its damaging to the egoic mind of the admins to have a member criticly think outside of this sites restraints.

- I never have censored a single comment on the site other than threats of violence against a fellow member or others.


I believe that everybody , every site and every piece of freedom fighting literature, video, film, radio or whatever should be available to all and that is what real freedom of expression is all about. I wish the site well as i know its part of that very structure but i fear it is shooting itself firmly in the foot with events of late.

I will sign off by quoting you cannot defend freedm abroad by deserting it at home!! Later

-- Again, not restricting your freedom friend, look above, there is a distinct difference in public versus private spaces . As your Mother must have told you this is my house and my rules. This site did not appear out of thin air, and trust me, you or most people most likely could not go out and create such a successful and popular site in such a short time and not face the same individual vs. the group desires issues. It is a learning experience and we will make mistakes. But the idea of promoting other sites here has proven to have been in the long run a deficit to our goals.

But alas, feel free, for you are free, to make Curt and Donnas site as you all see fit. And if they have the success we have had, (which, IMO will not happen unfortunately) I will be quite interested to see in the days / months ahead how these theories works out for you all.
My two cents.....not to comment on the radio shows, I did not hear them so I will not address that. As for censorship, anyone can link to anywhere on thier personal page, and agree the home page should not be used for off-site links unless they are news stories, etc. As an example, margaret, a long time member here has a great social site similar to 12160. It is a ning site called "Fighting for Liberty". It is not as big as 12160, and several members here are members there also. Never has margaret tried to link from the main page, but she does link from her 12160 page. This is as it should be, so I know for a fact 12160 allows anything exept porn and threats on anyone's page. Seems to me the radio issue should have been handled off air, but we are human and do make mistakes. I love everyone here and only hope we can forgive and move on. I have been banned here more than once for letting my emotions get the best of me, and was allowed back after a period to calm down. If anyone remembers the personal attacks I made agaist james, you would know he is a very forgiving and understanding, or I would not be writing this comment now. I doubt any other site admins would be so forgiving. thanks JAMES....and I wish everyone here my best.
One more thought, 12160 is like a group home, but we all have our own bedrooms and what you do THERE is fine, just keep it out of the living room PLEASE! lol Using the blog feature to get attention on the main page for what should be private issues is not good, and reflects on 12160 as a whole.....that's all folks.
the term success usually comes from of thinking related to monitary gain.real success comes from dedicated members who are commited to truth and are not blinded by financial distractions.im hoping most of us on this site are awake enough to realise there is no money.it's an illusion.the monetary system is one of the greatest enemies.so if you're in this fight for the illusion of chasin money.then you don't know the enemy,you cant fight the battle.you shouldnt even be on the battlefield.as for the promotion of other sites.i have joined another site based here in ireland which i did not know about which was posted in the chatango chat room while i was on 12.160.i joined but i still come back here.people should have freedom to post alternative sites/information but if its for the RIGHT reasons.its the caliber of the people on 12.160 and info which keeps me coming back.but if it becomes a game of getting the most hits or who's site is more popular.then you're fighting the wrong battlepeople should have right to post alternative sites/information within reason if not spamming
illuminated-dj said:
As I said earlier, it seems apparent when ones interest is to get the word out versus shameless self promotion of ones own site/ group. Generally I do not ask people not to promote their sites in chat but on the site it is simply different. Some observe common sense, others dont. The issue with their new social site is we do not allow anyone to promote these sites generally. Had we allowed this, the 200 other members with similar sites would have been allowed to promote their sites too. Just because they viewed their efforts as more deserving of this privileged does not exclude the issue it isnt fair to the others who havent been allowed to .

As broken said, there are active members here who also have their own similar sites, and yet they are still posted here but that is because they have the tact and decency not to make it their focus while on our site.

See my comment in reply to shadow regarding a captive audience.
One more thing IDJ regarding success. I will state for the record I have not made a cent from this site and our combined efforts. I in fact have neglected my self employment to the point that I have a much much lesser quality of life since dedicating so much time here. I do not have the luxury of a government check to assist me in my house payments or to put food on my table.

Our success is based on the fact that we as a whole have been here to provide the truth to those who seek it. The overwhelming amount of people that visit this site come from search engines. We have become a portal for information for ourselves and our visitors.

illuminated-dj said:
i hear what you're saying james.im sure people can come to some common ground on this issue
They Live said:
Look the point is our policy in regards to posting these other site links.

It is a side issue between Donna and Curt, and myself that entered the discussion later . So with that said TL , I was labeled a dictator, our site was labeled shit full of drama, and guess what? till those two went off on a network provided by this site there hasn't been any drama (minus a few bruised egos in the chat room) in ages.

You may have noticed I did not name names in my original post and I did not until my name was brought up later by your dear friends. I am always under the belief that one does not need to use names or point fingers to make ones point known to all and particularly to those intended for the message.

In addition to their on childish on air rant I was told that i censored them and when i wrote my feeling here why I didnt think it was censorship, every other thing in the world came out of their mouth but an explanation for this claim.

Obviously having our site labeled as censoring people is unacceptable and I responded accordingly. I note you did not address my reply in reference to censorship claims either. Put your head back in the chat room sand, nothing to see here, your mind is made up it seems.

IMO Once again feelings and tender egos weight higher than logic and meaningful and productive discussions.
Well, I wouldn't call Curt and Donna's site a spinoff but whatever.

I have in fact joined other "spinoffs".

None of them have interested me enough to keep me coming back and their lack of success is rather amusing.

I intend to keep an eye on Irritate the State now and then to see what Curt and Donna are up to and I joined to make sure I could comment on articles there should that option be available and if I feel the need. The same reason I maintain accounts at dozens of non-social alternative news sites. It doesn't mean I'm making a nest there. Ask Kim, I joined music wars and haven't logged in there for probably the last year. If I ever do I'll be able to leave a comment on a thread there if I want because I am a member.

Personally I'm really sick of political infighting here and having an opinion that you were both blowing shit out of all proportion I've simply decided I don't have the time or energy to give much of a fuck right now.

The show is gone, bummer. Everybody involved will live, hurt feelings or not, and nobody is bleeding or in need of medical attention, so fuck it.

Personally I'm looking forward to a couple of weeks off before jumping back into a show whether producing or hosting. Why should I get in the middle of this shit and ruin my vacation when it's really got nothing to do with me?


||yo
||
||From James aka adap2k to You
||Sent 9 hours ago
||
||Really no comment on the Curt Donna related thread? I see you joined their site. You ||of all people seem to have agreed with me in the past in regards to all the new ning ||like spin offs we have had and I am kind of surprised of all the sites and spin offs you ||choose this time to join another Oh well, hope you can add your two cents on that ||thread sometime soon, i guess I cant help my curiosity of your views about all of this ||. `Peace out
||
||Oh and ps, I hope you know and trust me that every effort to avoid this meltdown ||was made by myself and KLC, and that other than one slight out burst in the chat ||room, I have been professional and polite to those two.
Marklar said:
.

In the long run we are all the losers in this Mark, so I dont blame you for citing us all in your reply . It is recent disputes like this that make me see why Ed pulled the Ed here, and deleted the whole site and walked away. But quiting is for losers, We will march onward.

I and many others thank you for all the hard work you did here and on the shows. Enjoy your vacation.

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