Lawyers: merely possessing weapons and voicing opposition to the government is not illegal.
By James B. Kelleher
DETROIT (Reuters) - The extremist militia group members accused of plotting to kill police and wage war on the U.S. government should be freed pending trial because the case against them centres on political, not criminal issues, defence lawyers argued on Thursday.
Lawyers defending eight of the people charged in the case asked a judge during a hearing in Detroit to grant bail to the militia members, arguing that merely possessing weapons and voicing opposition to the government is not illegal.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Falvey told U.S. Magistrate Judge Donald Scheer the defendants, members of a group called the Hutaree, had "dark hearts and evil intent." Falvey said they broke the law by conspiring to oppose the U.S. government by using violence and weapons, and should be denied bail.
The seven men and one woman on Wednesday pleaded not guilty or remained silent and had not guilty pleas entered for them.
An indictment unsealed on Monday accused them of planning to kill a police officer in Michigan and then ambush the funeral with improvised explosive devices to kill more police. The defendants were preparing to fight authorities from fortified and booby-trapped positions, the indictment said.
Members of the Hutaree believed the attacks would "serve as a catalyst for a more widespread uprising" against the U.S. government, the indictment said.
Michael Rataj, the lawyer representing the wife of the group's leader, said the government was "prosecuting people who have only exercised their First and Second Amendments rights" under the U.S. Constitution to engage in free speech and own guns, and had not violated the law.
Other defence lawyers made similar points. Prosecutors and defence lawyers argued over the threat the suspects might pose if released on bond and the likelihood that they would show up for trial. The judge said he would rule by the end of the day on Friday on whether or not to release them on bond. Continued...
DETROIT (Reuters) - The extremist militia group members accused of plotting to kill police and wage war on the U.S. government should be freed pending trial because the case against them centres on political, not criminal issues, defence lawyers argued on Thursday.
Lawyers defending eight of the people charged in the case asked a judge during a hearing in Detroit to grant bail to the militia members, arguing that merely possessing weapons and voicing opposition to the government is not illegal.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Falvey told U.S. Magistrate Judge Donald Scheer the defendants, members of a group called the Hutaree, had "dark hearts and evil intent." Falvey said they broke the law by conspiring to oppose the U.S. government by using violence and weapons, and should be denied bail.
The seven men and one woman on Wednesday pleaded not guilty or remained silent and had not guilty pleas entered for them.
An indictment unsealed on Monday accused them of planning to kill a police officer in Michigan and then ambush the funeral with improvised explosive devices to kill more police. The defendants were preparing to fight authorities from fortified and booby-trapped positions, the indictment said.
Members of the Hutaree believed the attacks would "serve as a catalyst for a more widespread uprising" against the U.S. government, the indictment said.
Michael Rataj, the lawyer representing the wife of the group's leader, said the government was "prosecuting people who have only exercised their First and Second Amendments rights" under the U.S. Constitution to engage in free speech and own guns, and had not violated the law.
Other defence lawyers made similar points. Prosecutors and defence lawyers argued over the threat the suspects might pose if released on bond and the likelihood that they would show up for trial. The judge said he would rule by the end of the day on Friday on whether or not to release them on bond. Continued...
Comment
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Comment by Jeff on April 4, 2010 at 8:25pm
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It isn't that way here. The inner city might be bad, but not that bad. And the rest of the country, the suburbs, where I live it's just fine. We never see homeless people or rarely and we usually see people in parks, riding bikes, playing tennis, fishing, walking their dogs and having a good time.
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Comment by illuminated-dj on April 4, 2010 at 8:18pm
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well jeff what i seen in certain streets and outside the unemployment office wasnt a pretty picture,i saw a woman lying in a busy hgh street crying with a few tins of beer beside her.yes jeff,we do have serious problems,crime is spiralling,youths being stabbed everyday.yes jeff lots are unemployed or working class,but we had some goodtimes there for few years.now you can see it rotten.i dont know what vision of the future you have man,but society is fallin apart,its there for eyes to see.
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Well, I can't tell if a person is unemployed by looking at them and I also can't tell if a youth is good-hearted or not by looking at them.
But, that doesn't mean we don't have serious problems and I have no clue what unemployment is like in Belfast but I think it's not been very good there for a long time if I remember correctly. A large portion of Belfast is poor, or working class, isn't that right?
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na jeff,its not just the weekend,i see it everyday,i walked to the unemplyment office with a friend,and the security guard would only allow him in because of an increase of violent attacks.jeff i dont judge books by their covers,but i live in belfast,so i know what crazy/unstable people look like.id be the first person to give homeless people money also.all i'm saying is ive never seen anything like this before,you can sense something is rotten in society,societys falling apart plain and simple.
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I think one might expect that on a weekend, don't you?
Let me ask, you could tell the youths should be in a youth offender program by their clothing? And how did you determine that the people you saw were unemployed? They had signs? And the homeless people? They were homeless because they looked homeless. I look homeless. I haven't shaved or cut my hair in 3 years. My beard is a foot long and my hair is 2 feet long and in jeans and a t-shirt carrying a small backpack you'd think I was homeless too, but I'm not.
I don't think judging books by covers is a good idea. Lot's of people out on a weekend probably has a lot more to do with the fact that we're seeing the first days of Spring. There were a great many people outside here this weekend too. We had a terrible and cold winter across the entire US.
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We'll all be here to see.
Your position is accepted by many people here Gary although I will still disagree.
I wrote an article not long ago outlining why I don't believe we'll have food shortages, why no one will be locked up in FEMA camps, why Martial Law will not be declared and why there won't be a dollar crash. The link is below.
Your opinion is a distinctly American opinion. It doesn't account for the rest of the world.
So let me ask, when they begin this crackdown, which is what you're suggesting, are they going to do the same thing at the same time in the UK, France, Italy, Spain, Greece, Israel, Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Nigeria, Congo, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Canada and the rest of the world, or just here in the US?
The article I wrote is HERE.
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jeff i wouldn't be so sure,after spending a weekend in town drinking what i seen was not pretty,loads of homeless people walking around,loads of youths walking about who look like they should be in a young offenders centre,and loads of unemployed people walking around.ive never seen anything like this before and it dont look pretty.its a total collapse of society and i can see and feel it.
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That's your opinion. It's shared by many. It's not mine.
I also don't believe there will be food shortages, Martial Law, a dollar crash, people locked in FEMA camps or that Rothschild rules the world, although he surely has influence on certain events. I wrote and essay about it on this site not long ago.
It's Here
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Gary, based on you're scenario I should worry. Based on my own I don't need to because I don't believe for a moment that there's going to be an effort to lock us up.
We'll all be here to see what unfolds together. If they lock us up I play a mean game of spades and learned to play while spending 7 months in jail for Civil Contempt, which isn't a criminal charge by the way. Jails nothing new to me. I spent 6 months there ten years earlier for possessing pot. That is a criminal charge. A wonderful chance to read for 18 hours a day and I've read everything from Clive Cussler to 1859 US case law regarding Thomas Jefferson's estate in jail and it's a great pleasure to have the time to do so, no need to clean, do laundry or cook, so I have no fears. Hell, you don't even have to turn the lights on and off and access to the law library is virtually unlimited.
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All of the objectives I've written have been met. In isn't an objective to defeat guerrilla warfare, it's the objective to create it. That's what allows for perpetual war. That's specifically why there's evidence on the internet that we funded both Shia and Sunni factions. And we still instigate instability. That instability not only allows that no power will take hold that will be effective at moving the states agenda forward it also allows for continued usurpation of resources and it allows for the strategy of maintaining bases within the region. You're falling for the Psyops reasoning.
My synopsis of objectives is the reality that's obfuscated. Yes, some of what the CIA puts out is objective and accurate analysis. For example, they recently published a document recognizing the demise of Israel within 20 years and they have some of the best analysts on the planet. Using immigration patterns, birth and death rates, public opinion, passport records and migration data and general political and public opinion trends they made what I consider a very accurate prediction.
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