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Comment by Jude on April 12, 2011 at 11:14pm

Nikki, I don't know if all of the school districts were that way, but in the town we lived in (Longmont, CO) they were all that way. My kids went to Columbine in South Park which was the school in the cartoon series "South Park". I didn't talk to the principle or the school board, but my wife did and it was pretty useless.

Comment by Nikki on April 12, 2011 at 11:12pm

Jude, I'm still not buying into it.  I have many friends and have known many people over the years who were traumatized by being smacked around by their parents.  Almost every alcoholic or drug abuser I've known had some kind of childhood trauma caused by their parents and most had held in their resentment for years.  It's too late when you're kids are in their 30s to apologize for your bad parenting skills, the damage has already been done.

Comment by Nikki on April 12, 2011 at 11:05pm

Jude, did you ever talk to the principal or the school board?  Do you think it was just this school, the particular school district or the whole state?  My daughter has been enrolled in two different school districts in the same state and they were run quite differently and had different policies.  The larger one has a bad reputation while the smaller one is considered one of the best in the state.

Comment by Jude on April 12, 2011 at 11:03pm

For those who have wondered if scientific clinical studies have been done on this - Yes. Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I've included 2 separate articles on this subject that were published in America and in England. Please read both as they both have interesting information.

Study: Spanked Children May Grow Up to Be Happier, More Successful

Monday, January 04, 2010

Young children spanked by their parents may grow up to be happier and more successful than those who have never been hit, a study has found.

According to the research, children spanked up to the age of 6 were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to college than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.

But children who continued to be spanked into adolescence showed clear behavioral problems.

Children’s groups and lawmakers in the UK have tried several times to have physical chastisement by parents outlawed, the Times of London reported. They claim it is a form of abuse that causes long-term harm to children and say banning it would send a clear signal that violence is unacceptable.

However, Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, said her study showed there was insufficient evidence to deny parents the freedom to choose how they discipline their children.

“The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data,” said Gunnoe. “I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool. You just don’t use it for all your jobs.”

Research into the effects of spanking was previously hampered by the inability to find enough children who had never been spanked, given its past cultural acceptability.

But Gunnoe’s work drew on a study of 2,600 people, about a quarter of whom had never been physically chastised.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581882,00.html#ixzz1JMjJ3aIb

Young children who are smacked 'go on to be more successful'

By Daniel Martin
Last updated at 8:55 AM on 4th January 2010

Disciplined: Children who have been physically admonished at a young age performed better on all counts

Young children who are smacked by their parents grow up to be happier and more successful than those who have never been hit, research claims.

It found that children who are smacked before the age of six perform better at school when they are teenagers.

They are also more likely to do voluntary work and to want to go to university than those who have never been physically disciplined.

But the study also revealed that children who are smacked after the age of six were more likely to exhibit behavioural problems, such as being involved in fights.

Smacking is currently banned in 20 European countries, including Germany, Spain and the Netherlands.

In Britain 'reasonable chastisement' in the home is allowed unless it leaves a mark.

But the study, by Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of Psychology at Calvin College in the U.S. state of Michigan, found there was not enough evidence to prove that smacking harmed most children.

She said: 'The claims that are made for not spanking children fail to hold up.

'I think of spanking as a dangerous-tool, but then there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool. You don't use it for all your jobs.'

Professor Gunnoe questioned 2,600 people about being smacked, of whom a quarter had never been physically chastised.

The participants' answers then were compared with their behaviour, such as academic success, optimism about the future, antisocial behaviour, violence and bouts of depression.

Teenagers in the survey who had been smacked only between the ages of two and six performed best on all the positive measures.

Those who had been smacked between seven and 11 fared worse on negative behaviour but were more likely to be academically successful. Teenagers who were still smacked fared worst on all counts.

Parenting guru Penelope Leach disagreed with the findings.

'No good can come from hitting a child,' she said. 'I do not buy this idea that children will learn positive behaviour from being smacked.

'The law says adults hitting adults is wrong and children should be protected in the same way. Children are people too.'

But psychologist Aric Sigman said: 'The idea smacking and violence are on a continuum is a bizarre and fetished view of what punishment is for most parents.

'If it's done judiciously by a parent who is normally affectionate and sensitive to their child, our society should not be up in arms about that. Parents should be taught to distinguish this from a punch in the face.'

Two years ago, Britain was criticised by the UN for failing to ban smacking in the home, after experts said it was a form of abuse.

And growing numbers of the public seem to agree: A recent poll found 71 per cent of parents would support a ban on smacking.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240279/Children-smacked-yo...

Comment by Jude on April 12, 2011 at 10:55pm

Nikki, when my kids were advancing to third grade, they invited parents to visit and become familiar with the new classroom environment and new teachers. I happened to be off that day and accompanied my wife to this event. I was shocked. We sat in on one of the classes and then went to lunch with our kids. For the entire 45 minutes, while the teacher was giving a lesson, children got up and got a toy or a book. Some would even wander out into the hallway. Most would put up whatever item they had when asked, but this was a constant disruption and took time away from the lesson. There were a couple of kids who had obviously figured that nothing would be done if they ignored the teacher and so continued undaunted. We were pretty upset and were assured by other parents that this went on in other classrooms as well which really made us wary of letting our children attend. Unfortunately, I didn't make enough money to put our children in a private school. And then we had to deal with a particular teacher who thought we were bad parents because we asked her not to allow our middle child to bring home the "Goosebumps" series to read because it gave him nightmares. So she would let him read them at library break against our wishes. The whole experience was a like living a nightmare. When we moved to Texas, it was like night and day. The teachers wanted to work with us and respected our input.

Comment by Nikki on April 12, 2011 at 10:17pm

KRYPKE, I hear you and I agree about the spanking, I don't believe in it.  I took psychology in college and I took all the available parenting classes and l know there are better ways to handle kids and my child is proof of it.  That's why I said previously that maybe parenting classes should be mandatory. And I do agree that there's many people who have children and are not qualified to raise them.  What I was referring to is the unsolicited advice and snarky remarks I've received from people who never had kids and never will (and they aren't psychologists, they're just wise asses who have no idea what they're talking about.  I can't imagine why they think I would be interested in their advice, they just like to hear themselves talk.

Comment by Nikki on April 12, 2011 at 10:04pm

Jude, I find it hard to believe that Colorado schools have no discipline when schools all over the country have a zero tolerance policy.  Is there some article or blog about this because I would really like to understand this?  Obviously we are not being told the whole story about this kid.  But if the mother says he's not a problem at home or with baby sitters, I have a feeling something is wrong at the school or that he was not properly socialized as a young child.  Possibly he has trouble getting along with the other kids at school or maybe some are bullying him.  Or maybe he has an allergy to some cleaning product they use.  Nevertheless, it's up to the parents to get to the bottom of the problem.  Kids need to learn how to get along with kids their own age long before they enter school.  If the mother didn't set up play dates for him or have him in preschool, at least part time, then she was negligent in that area.

Comment by Isaac Dus on April 12, 2011 at 8:05pm

Hey Jude, don't be so sad, I've read Tara, and she's not bad, just let her into your empty heart and everything will get better better better Ahaaaaaa! Na Na Na Na na Na Hey Jude, don't get the leather belt ... if you do you will hurt her, Hey Jude, Jen deserves better, help me sing the song Children before you wreck her etc etc e-Moth

Comment by Cryptocurrency on April 12, 2011 at 6:01pm

Nikki, for the sake of debate, just because someone has children, does not make them a parent, figuratively speaking. There are many qualified educators and behavioral psychologists that very often know what is better for a child than many parents. With the exception of effective parenting skills, coupled with what I would consider "good people" -- the unfortunate reality is, the state has taken over and the system, i.e the school system, the media, the entire social system, are raising our children. 

 

Let us not forget to add certain genetic anomalies into this equation. Some children are just born troubled regardless of your parenting abilities. They are genetically predisposed to be bad. That is psych 101. I am in no way accosting you, Nikki, so you know. I respect you and all that you do. Just wanted to say that.

 

And one of the main reasons why spanking is usually not the best form of punishment is because children that need to be consistently spanked, typically have serious behavioral issues that require years of outreach and counseling. And even then they may never be cured of what we perceive as their affliction.  Approx 1 out of 25 people are sociopaths, and to them, their feelings and behavior is quite normal. They see the rest of us as weak and easily tricked and manipulated; they see nothing wrong with their cold lack of empathy and narcissism.

Comment by Jude on April 12, 2011 at 5:31pm

Tara, Nikki - I have already stated that I raised 3 children in the Colorado public school system. They have NO discipline at all. And yes, I would be very upset if my kid had gotten pepper sprayed at school by a police officer. But then I would have to ask why? I would also want to know what the circumstances were for this to happen. If it looked as bad as what was being reported with this kid, I would punish my child for doing such a thing.

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