Understanding Islam, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and The War On Terror
I tried to make this point on another thread but failed miserably and was attacked by the copy and paste bandit. I maintain the accuracies of my statements.
I have three close friends that I talk with frequently, some more then others. One lives in Lahore, Pakistan, a doctor and we speak daily; one lives in the UK, a smitten intellectual; and one lives in the UK half the year and Pakistan the other half; a prolific internet author. (feel free to Google Charles Ferndale, he'd appreciate it)
Two are Muslims and the one that isn't is an expert on Islam.
5 suicide bombings in the past two weeks and 100+ dead.
My friend in Lahore was born and raised there, always a Muslim. My friend in the UK was once a Catholic (he must have been possessed) and now a Muslim (struck with clarity I would assume). My friend, the prolific writer is an Atheist.
They all proclaim the same thing, Islam is a peaceful religion.
Yet we are bombarded with mainstream impressions that equate Muslim extremism with Islam and paint a very different picture of what reality may be. In fact, with Muslims suicide bombing Mosques one would get the distinct impression that they're very violent people. What's up with that?
A fourth friend, Gordon Duff, another prolific internet author and ex-marine Special Forces puts it all into perspective. Here's a quote from Gordon:
"The root of the problems in the region are historical in nature. Unless you go back 200 years or more, something we aren’t doing here, nothing will make sense. The region, Af-Pak, is acreation, primarily of Britain’s, seemingly created out of a design to stimulate instability and conflict to enable “the great game” Britain is famous for to be played, one side against the other. In 1893, when Afghanistan and India/Pakistan were split by Durand, dividing tribes and even families, continual war was guaranteed. In 1947, when Pakistan was created out of a group of peoples, roughly “Islamic” but otherwise unrelated, we were guaranteed even more instability. Pakistan would be a combination of advanced culture, warlike tribes and resentful quasi-independent regions constantly at odds with their powerful neighbor, India."
People easily forget that these areas of the globe were bordered arbitrarily by western colonialism which reached its peak when the borders were delineated. Those borders aren't recognized by the people that live there making these places we in the west refer to as countries not really countries at all. As I said, that's a point I failed to make on another thread but still maintain its accuracy.
The US is a well delineated country whose border is acknowledged and respected not only by the international community but by the people that live here. The UK is the same. Canada too.
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan and Turkmenistan have delineated borders outlined and mapped by Britain, not by the people that live there and although we here in the west reference those borders and refer to the areas by the country names they've taken the people that live there do not recognize those borders as anything other then a line drawn on a map. Their governments may recognize them but we are not our government and our government is not us. The people there don't know from borders.
Now, we have Muslims bombing Mosques, or so we're told by the media.
Yet my good friends tell me that a true Muslim, even a moderate Muslim but certainly a devout Muslim would NEVER bomb a Mosque. I believe that's true. We haven't had one incidence, ever, of Christians bombing churches nor have we had any incidents of Jews bombing temples, except for one deviation from that concept.
Mossad has been caught in South America dressed as South Americans, disguised, and bombing their own Jewish temples. They've also been caught, again disguised as Muslims, bombing places of interest in the UK. MI5 agents were caught in Iraq dressed as Arabs in possession of explosives and although the incident hit the media it also quickly disappeared.
Conclusion:
The terror bombings in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikstan whose borders aren't recognized by the people who live there are false flag operations by MI5, Mossad, the CIA, ISI, RAW and the Chinese and Russian intelligence agencies all of whom have vital business interests in these areas and are using Islam to foment terror and discord to maintain instability with the eventual desire to redraw borders to aid commerce in natural resources for profit.
Islam is no more or less peaceful then Christianity. Believers in these two religions MUST unite because they have the same enemy and that enemy is powerful, global and capable.
I have three close friends that I talk with frequently, some more then others. One lives in Lahore, Pakistan, a doctor and we speak daily; one lives in the UK, a smitten intellectual; and one lives in the UK half the year and Pakistan the other half; a prolific internet author. (feel free to Google Charles Ferndale, he'd appreciate it)
Two are Muslims and the one that isn't is an expert on Islam.
5 suicide bombings in the past two weeks and 100+ dead.
My friend in Lahore was born and raised there, always a Muslim. My friend in the UK was once a Catholic (he must have been possessed) and now a Muslim (struck with clarity I would assume). My friend, the prolific writer is an Atheist.
They all proclaim the same thing, Islam is a peaceful religion.
Yet we are bombarded with mainstream impressions that equate Muslim extremism with Islam and paint a very different picture of what reality may be. In fact, with Muslims suicide bombing Mosques one would get the distinct impression that they're very violent people. What's up with that?
A fourth friend, Gordon Duff, another prolific internet author and ex-marine Special Forces puts it all into perspective. Here's a quote from Gordon:
"The root of the problems in the region are historical in nature. Unless you go back 200 years or more, something we aren’t doing here, nothing will make sense. The region, Af-Pak, is acreation, primarily of Britain’s, seemingly created out of a design to stimulate instability and conflict to enable “the great game” Britain is famous for to be played, one side against the other. In 1893, when Afghanistan and India/Pakistan were split by Durand, dividing tribes and even families, continual war was guaranteed. In 1947, when Pakistan was created out of a group of peoples, roughly “Islamic” but otherwise unrelated, we were guaranteed even more instability. Pakistan would be a combination of advanced culture, warlike tribes and resentful quasi-independent regions constantly at odds with their powerful neighbor, India."
People easily forget that these areas of the globe were bordered arbitrarily by western colonialism which reached its peak when the borders were delineated. Those borders aren't recognized by the people that live there making these places we in the west refer to as countries not really countries at all. As I said, that's a point I failed to make on another thread but still maintain its accuracy.
The US is a well delineated country whose border is acknowledged and respected not only by the international community but by the people that live here. The UK is the same. Canada too.
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan and Turkmenistan have delineated borders outlined and mapped by Britain, not by the people that live there and although we here in the west reference those borders and refer to the areas by the country names they've taken the people that live there do not recognize those borders as anything other then a line drawn on a map. Their governments may recognize them but we are not our government and our government is not us. The people there don't know from borders.
Now, we have Muslims bombing Mosques, or so we're told by the media.
Yet my good friends tell me that a true Muslim, even a moderate Muslim but certainly a devout Muslim would NEVER bomb a Mosque. I believe that's true. We haven't had one incidence, ever, of Christians bombing churches nor have we had any incidents of Jews bombing temples, except for one deviation from that concept.
Mossad has been caught in South America dressed as South Americans, disguised, and bombing their own Jewish temples. They've also been caught, again disguised as Muslims, bombing places of interest in the UK. MI5 agents were caught in Iraq dressed as Arabs in possession of explosives and although the incident hit the media it also quickly disappeared.
Conclusion:
The terror bombings in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikstan whose borders aren't recognized by the people who live there are false flag operations by MI5, Mossad, the CIA, ISI, RAW and the Chinese and Russian intelligence agencies all of whom have vital business interests in these areas and are using Islam to foment terror and discord to maintain instability with the eventual desire to redraw borders to aid commerce in natural resources for profit.
Islam is no more or less peaceful then Christianity. Believers in these two religions MUST unite because they have the same enemy and that enemy is powerful, global and capable.
Comment
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Comment by Jeff on March 16, 2010 at 12:37am
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By the way, the link you provided below NEVER discusses Atheism relative to Communism and that you've confused the two is obvious. Atheists are probably the safest people on the planet since they're guided by the human instinct to love everyone equally and they don't have a religion that tells them they'll be saved and the others that don't believe won't. I don't care what you're religion is fireguy. If there is a God, which I doubt, he'll see all of us equally. You, being human, don't. He will.
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People have used the Hitler, Mao, Stalin argument before and it's been carefully and adequately debunked for years.
You're not the first to use it and I'm not the first to debunk it.
Bye
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Comment by fireguy on March 15, 2010 at 10:19pm
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Wow Jeff, I wish I was as smart as you think you are. Your right I probably should not try to argue with the one with all the answers.. It's been a good day. Cya
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I replied to your issues SPECIFICALLY. Maybe you didn't read that reply?
The answer is NO.
I said:
"The 56 million dead in WWII, the 37 million dead in WWI and the 1 million Iraqi's we just killed would disagree with you entirely.
These deaths had nothing to do with Atheism, Agnostics or Humanists. They were caused by tyrants, banking and corporate interests. Religion, or lack of it, wasn't involved in the agenda, profit and control were.
"
Now, I hate to have to resort to reality since you seem to be enjoying your illusions but Hitler, Stalin and Mao were not Atheists or Agnostics but you probably don't read much history.
In Mein Kampf and later in a speech at the Reichstag he said, "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Oh, but he was just using that for rhetorical purposes, he didn’t actually believe it, right? Wrong, he’s also said, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." Hitler was also a Creationist.
Stalin and Mao are a bit tougher to crack, mainly because there’s no quotations attributable to them either way (at least that I can find, if you know of a reliable source for some, feel free to tell me). But most people seem to assume that because they abolished religion, they must be atheists. In fact, they abolished religion so that they could establish cults of personality, and become gods themselves. They did what they needed to in order to get more power, and religion was a rival power source, which is why they abolished it. Stalin actually reinstated the church after Hitler invaded, because he thought it would help him.
Religion simply got in their way, and they eliminated anything and anyone that got in their way.
Even if any of these people were atheists, what would it say about atheists or atheism in general? I’ve never heard an atheist make the claim that because Hitler was a Catholic, Catholicism and Catholics are evil, which is exactly the way people use the Stalin/Hitler/Mao/whoever argument. I would contend that it is far easier to manipulate religion and use it for evil than it is for atheism, mainly because religions are actually organized and unite people with a common belief system, while atheism is unorganized and typically disunited. Religion’s potential for evil is therefore greater, but no more necessary than atheism being evil.
However, put up against each other, religion beats atheism by several orders of magnitude in number of people killed. But that’s another story.
Convincing someone whose historic views are based on a singular religious perspective of the truth behind history and religion is difficult because they want to glorify religion and vilify Atheism when the worst offender is really religion.
Atheism had nothing to do with these murders and it's probably too complicated to go into here nor do I believe you'd take the time to read it since you didn't read my answer the first time I typed it below. Atheism has more truly caring, truly humanitarian believers then any other belief or at least as many.
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You bag on Christians and the bible but you never address my issues. Did or did not the Godless Communist Athiest govenments kill millions upon millions of their own countrymen in the last century? A simple yes or no will do.
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You didn't put me down by saying Atheists are responsible for economic collapse, moral decadence and millions upon millions of deaths? No? You just seem to think that's OK because to you you were stating the truth. I didn't make a claim that you insulted me. It's not the truth to me. It's putting me down with distortions of reality. By the same token the truths that I see, you perceive as put downs. This is why religious belief is divisive to people who fail to intellectualize when discussing the subject. You're offended by my perspective while I prefer to discuss it intellectually. Remember, I didn't make claims that you were putting me down but you do make those claims because rather then discuss religion intellectually you discuss it personally.
Here's my view very simply. The bible is full of documented cases of Misogyny, rape, slavery and murder.
By carefully manipulating it or even choosing only small portions of it there are distortions. We don't believe the earth is half flat and I don't understand why anyone would believe half of the bible.
Religion was designed by the elite to control the masses and it works.
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You sure are quick witted with the put downs brother. You talk my distorted reality? LMAO. I don't remember talking about world wars or Iraq in any positive manners so why would the dead dissagree with me? I was talking about athiestic leaders who killed masses of their own people. Just because you don't want to believe that they were athiests/anti-religious freedom/dick wads don't make it so. You can have your own opinions but not your own facts. Deal with it.
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The 56 million dead in WWII, the 37 million dead in WWI and the 1 million Iraqi's we just killed would disagree with you entirely.
These deaths had nothing to do with Atheism, Agnostics or Humanists. They were caused by tyrants, banking and corporate interests. Religion, or lack of it, wasn't involved in the agenda, profit and control were.
You're decidedly condescending and entirely degrading view of Agnostics, Atheists and Humanists creates fear. Christians and Muslims, and religion, are responsible for more deaths in recorded history then any other single group. That's historic fact.
Your perspective is a distortion of reality.
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The only thing I am fanatic about is freedom. Jesus Christ has defeated death and sin so that is about as free as it gets. No one can be forced into a relationship with God. Religion or non religion is another story however.
You are choosing to ignore much of the history of the 20th century. Whenever athiestic/humanistic/darwinistic governments have taken power millions have died. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pot, Ho Chi Min, and the list goes on. But the bankers made profit on all of it so they are the worst offenders in my view. Maybe we can agree on that point and move on to our next disscussion whatever that is.
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/museum/faqframe.htm
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I was discussing religious belief in general. From my perspective it seems odd that Christians don't wonder about Islam, that Muslims don't wonder about Christianity and that Catholics don't wonder about both.
We, as humans, seek knowledge about that which interests us but we don't seek knowledge about religion the same way. We seem to have a myopic view of religion and we get very defensive if people question our religions. They can question our politics or any number of beliefs, but not religion. Question religion and you're met with a feeling of dislike.
Very typically Christians also fail to address any questions I might have from an intellectual perspective. I've always wondered how Christians account for the fact that so many people believe in other religions and I've asked the same questions many times and still wonder, did all of these people simply choose the wrong religion, Muslims and Catholics? Damned because they picked the wrong belief? Jews too?
I mean if you look at it logically a child born in SE Asia is likely to be a Muslim just because of where he or she was born. Thus, they're damned from the start because they picked the wrong religion. Doesn't make intellectual sense to me.
You equate agnostic/atheist/humanist with economic collapse and moral decadence. That's just not true. As an Atheist I have a more stable and Jesus-like perspective then many right-wing Christians. I accept all religions equally simply because I want my own religion accepted and my Muslim friends in the UK and Pakistan accept it but my Christian friends don't seem to accept it the same way, unconditionally.
ALL religions provide a path for their believers that espouses freedom, justice and equality and all religions have extremists that distort those views.
Only moderate religion has human value. Fanatics of any kind are dangerous to us all and Atheism has no less value then Christianity. If you love all people equally the specific religion you've chosen is of no consequence. We're all the same genes.
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