Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
LONDON – Physicist Stephen Hawking says God wasn't necessary for the creation of the universe.
In his new book, "The Grand Design," the British scientist says unraveling a complex series of theories will explain the
universe. The book, written with American physicist and author Leonard
Mlodinow, will be published Sept. 9.
In an extract published Thursday in The Times, Hawking wrote that it was "not necessary to invoke God."
"The Universe can and will create itself from nothing," Hawking wrote. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist."
In "A Brief History of Time," Hawking had appeared to accept the possibility of a creator, saying the
discovery of a complete theory would allow humans to "know the mind of
God."
Rodger Bosch / AFP - Getty Images file
Physicist Stephen Hawking delivers a lecture in South Africa in 2008. In a new
book, he says science doesn't need God to explain the origin of the
universe.
British physicist Stephen Hawking's latest book is already making waves
with his observation that science can explain the universe's origin
without invoking God.
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," Hawking and his co-author, Caltech
physicist Leonard Mlodinow, write in "The Grand Design,"
which is due to be issued next week. "Spontaneous creation is the
reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists,
why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch
paper and set the universe going."
That's the quote that lit the match in The Guardian as well in The Times of London, which published an excerpt from the book in its Thursday edition. But
by itself, the quote doesn't have much "there" there. If Hawking is
saying merely that something can arise from nothing willy-nilly, that's
not much of an explanation for the origin of the universe.
What he's actually saying in the book is that when we study the universe's origins, we have to work our way back from the present,
rather than assuming there's an arbitrary point 13.7 billion years ago
when Someone pressed the button on a cosmic stopwatch. And when you look
at it that way, the universe looks more and more like a quantum
phenomenon, in which a multitude of histories diverge. This is what
Hawking calls top-down cosmology.
Space and time fizzle out, so it can't be said that there is a time before the big bang — just as you can't say that there is something north of the North Pole. (I'm talking "north," not "up.")
Gravity is part of the picture because it helps keep the cosmic balance sheet in line. Here's the part of the paragraph just before the
quote cited above: "Because gravity shapes space and time, it allows
space-time to be locally stable but globally unstable. On the scale of
the entire universe, the positive energy of the matter can be balanced by the negative gravitational energy, and so there is no restriction on the creation of whole universes."
"The Grand Design" puts together ideas that Hawking has been trying out for a long time. Five years ago, for example, he noted that eliminating the question of what happened
before the big bang meant "the beginning of the universe would be
covered by science." And four years ago,
he joked that he had presented a paper suggesting how the universe
began during the same conference at which Pope John Paul II asked
scientists to set the question aside.
Does Hawking's view mean that modern physics "leaves no place for God in the creation of the universe," as the Times suggests, or that
"God did not create the universe," as The Guardian claims? Not unless
you need a "God of the Gaps"
to step into science's place. A more sophisticated view would hold that
physics (and evolutionary biology, to cite another example) are the
not-always-mysterious ways in which God routinely works. In fact, Soren Kierkegaard would say that God's workings have to be transparent — and I tend to side with Soren.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adveser on
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Hawking is very good at math. He is not a great critical thinker in my opinion.
When he discovered his illness in college, i believe in college, he had to adap the way he calculated where it could all be done in his head. Needless to say, he got extremely good at it in a way no one else could really. That does not make him a super-scientific genius people claim.
He's just another guy that fosters the status quo of science and keeps trying to shoehorn every observable thing into einsteins' admitedly unfinished (and in need of expansion) works.
Einstein was a celebrity and the face of science, people want to believe he was right and that his words were final when Albert himself thought such ideas of grandeur to be completely anti-scientific.
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I don't want to imply einstein was without his merits, but he himself knew his limitations. No one else seems to think he has any in the scientific community.
Rich Thor said:Einstein was a globalist,Stephen Hawking is a physicist,whose backing his research!
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Kimbrough on
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There is a book coming out called Forbidden Gates, the website is here with a couple of promo videos on it. http://www.forbiddengate.com. I'm not sure if it was here or not I posted something I found. It is called Transhumanism. This stuff is scary and freaky. One long video shows how some scientists want to use it to help while others, especially those with funding have a completely different purpose in mind.
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Permalink Reply by Central Scrutinizer on
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yes yes, this is another theory, yet maybe not his believe, the math is kicking in again w/ Mr. Hawkings. The scary part is that mathematics doesn't lie....
Yahya said:By the way guys- he is not actually saying that he now believes that the universe was created without God, but that there is a hypothetical possibility that it could be. There is a huge difference between the two.
If I were able to describe it in the exact terminology that top physicians and theoligists used to explain EXACTLY what he meant in his new theorum, then I wouldnt be here but suffice to say it has been interpreted in a very simple way- when what he actually said was in fact not that there isnt a God but there is a possibility. Just as when he said a few years ago that he could concieve of the existence of God.
Clear? thought not.
Dont worry though, even the worlds smartest suffer from cognitive dissonance just like the rest of us.
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Actually, that brings up an interesting point. Mathematics can lie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_fallacy
H0llyw00d said:yes yes, this is another theory, yet maybe not his believe, the math is kicking in again w/ Mr. Hawkings. The scary part is that mathematics doesn't lie....
Yahya said:By the way guys- he is not actually saying that he now believes that the universe was created without God, but that there is a hypothetical possibility that it could be. There is a huge difference between the two.
If I were able to describe it in the exact terminology that top physicians and theoligists used to explain EXACTLY what he meant in his new theorum, then I wouldnt be here but suffice to say it has been interpreted in a very simple way- when what he actually said was in fact not that there isnt a God but there is a possibility. Just as when he said a few years ago that he could concieve of the existence of God.
Clear? thought not.
Dont worry though, even the worlds smartest suffer from cognitive dissonance just like the rest of us.
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Permalink Reply by Marklar on
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Yes, that's one of the great downfalls of the current state of physics. Mathematicians have pretty much taken over the field of physics and pushed more empirical physicists aside. The result is that if your math is elegant and brilliant it is staunchly defended even in the face of contrary empirical evidence because all of you colleagues are primarily mathematicians as well and how dare reality try to intrude on our lofty number juggling.
There is a reason that physics and mathematics have different names and the high brow math geeks need to back off and start putting up or shutting up in the real world even if they are definitely useful at times.
Adveser said:Actually, that brings up an interesting point. Mathematics can lie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_fallacy
H0llyw00d said:yes yes, this is another theory, yet maybe not his believe, the math is kicking in again w/ Mr. Hawkings. The scary part is that mathematics doesn't lie....
Yahya said:By the way guys- he is not actually saying that he now believes that the universe was created without God, but that there is a hypothetical possibility that it could be. There is a huge difference between the two.
If I were able to describe it in the exact terminology that top physicians and theoligists used to explain EXACTLY what he meant in his new theorum, then I wouldnt be here but suffice to say it has been interpreted in a very simple way- when what he actually said was in fact not that there isnt a God but there is a possibility. Just as when he said a few years ago that he could concieve of the existence of God.
Clear? thought not.
Dont worry though, even the worlds smartest suffer from cognitive dissonance just like the rest of us.
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I've been reading Tom Horn's book Apollyon Rising 2012. In it he talks about the Transhumaism and the Transhumanist starting in chapter 8 and onward. It is getting pretty freaky yet he gives plenty of sources backing up what he says. I've noticed lately a lot of TV Shows advertised and movies that are getting us use to the idea.
Luke 17
25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
It is to my understanding that in the days of Noah, His creation was infected with Satan's:
Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Genesis 7
1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
IMHO, bioengineering existed back then, not so much discovered by man but by the Fallen ones. As one finds they have been working on animals for quite some time and now they have been given permission here in the USA (the UK already has been doing it) to use with humans.
Numbers 13
30And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. 31But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we. 32And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. 33And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Deuteronomy 2
19And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession. 20(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; 21A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:
Deuteronomy 3
11For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
Deuteronomy 2
10 The Emims dwelled therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; 11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.
There are so many accounts in the Bible. One can look it up here http://kingjbible.com Then taken into account other religions and beliefs that talks about gods, demigods, weird type of human cross breeds. Even before I read (actually still reading) this book I wrote something and posted it on my website years ago http://www.g-kexoticfarms.com/truth_is_stranger_than_fiction.htm which got me in a bit of trouble with fellow Christians. Reading this book makes me not feel so nutty now, lol. But who knows, I could be wrong.
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Anthony Kimbrough said:I've been reading Tom Horn's book Apollyon Rising 2012. In it he talks about the Transhumaism and the Transhumanist starting in chapter 8 and onward. It is getting pretty freaky yet he gives plenty of sources backing up what he says. I've noticed lately a lot of TV Shows advertised and movies that are getting us use to the idea.
Luke 17
25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
It is to my understanding that in the days of Noah, His creation was infected with Satan's:
Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Genesis 7
1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
IMHO, bioengineering existed back then, not so much discovered by man but by the Fallen ones. As one finds they have been working on animals for quite some time and now they have been given permission here in the USA (the UK already has been doing it) to use with humans.
Numbers 13
30And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. 31But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we. 32And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. 33And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Deuteronomy 2
19And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession. 20(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; 21A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:
Deuteronomy 3
11For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
Deuteronomy 2
10 The Emims dwelled therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; 11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.
There are so many accounts in the Bible. One can look it up here http://kingjbible.com Then taken into account other religions and beliefs that talks about gods, demigods, weird type of human cross breeds. Even before I read (actually still reading) this book I wrote something and posted it on my website years ago http://www.g-kexoticfarms.com/truth_is_stranger_than_fiction.htm which got me in a bit of trouble with fellow Christians. Reading this book makes me not feel so nutty now, lol. But who knows, I could be wrong.
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Permalink Reply by fireguy on
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Scientists who are not stuck in the materialism of the 19th centuary dogma of Darwinism are finding out more every day about the DESIGN behind the universe and everything in it.
Some are and many are not Christians or religious in any way they are just following the evidence where it leads and discovering that something does not come from nothing and there is an intelligence out there that designed and built the universe.
Like PH quoted from Romans, there are some really smart fools out there professing themselves to be wise.
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If they have it their way, they will never die. On the link in my first post there are a lot of videos, some of scientist and some of those funding them. They fear death because they know which way they are headed. The thing I can't figure out is why they still breathe. People debate them, or at least try. We are their Chattel, and owners do not debate with inferiors, or that is how they see it. It amuses them when people approach them.
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