Comment

Comment by fireguy on April 3, 2010 at 2:38pm

No guarantees that anyone will do anything that they say they will, including you and me. I support Oathkeepers and until the unthinkable happens we won't know if they will keep their oaths to defend the Constitution or if DEFEND really means DEFEND.

I can only hope and pray that we can turn the Titanic away from the ice berg before it is too late by using all peaceful means.

The fact that those people in Michigan and Ohio did not fire on the police only shows that the whole thing was probably a caused by an operative inside the organization. A very good reason to stay away from organized "militia" and stick with the leaderless model.

Jeff, face it you really do think you are the smartest and most intellectual one here. LOL

Comment by Jeff on April 3, 2010 at 2:11pm

Yes, if you're (not you, but any given person) making plans to use weapons available to you against a government that has proven itself to be the single most advanced military machine ever known, I would categorize you as foolish however I never called you a fool. Never. I also didn't say I was smarter then you but I did disagree with you and if you consider someone disagreeing with you also inferring that they're smarter then you I can't very well do much about your erroneous perceptions. That's up to you to work out.

I didn't use the word fantasy. I addressed your argument with facts. The Hutaree were met with "No Thanks" from their patriot friends the very moment they were faced with US government agents. That speaks volumes in regard to the cohesive nature of patriot groups and how they'll support one another in the face of armed struggle or rather how they won't.

I also provided evidence regarding the fact that it would be easy to portray all patriot groups in a poor light, since we're fighting wars unnecessarily with huge public support and I also provided evidence of American mentality; we elected Bush and Obama, did we not?

You attacked me directly and failed to support your argument in any manner resembling intellectual dialogue, which is your prerogative but not the route I would have chosen.

Comment by fireguy on April 3, 2010 at 1:07pm

Damn, I forgot that you (Jeff) are the smart one here, thanks for reminding me again.

Funny how anyone who even slightly disagrees with you is a "fool" living in a "fantasy" and is without understanding.

I really hope that we can get our freedoms back without violence and pray that that will be the case.

No one but a fool would want it otherwise.

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

Comment by Jeff on April 3, 2010 at 11:32am

Perhaps you don't understand the paradigm or the power of propaganda.

I didn't see anyone running to the rescue of the Hutaree. In fact the Militia they called said, "No Thanks" and that's printed in the media where you can read it.

What makes you think other Patriot groups and freedom loving Americans won't be painted in the same light? Show me evidence.

I'll provide you with evidence. Millions of Americans supported Bush and the war in Iraq and millions support the phony war in Afghanistan and worse, we elected Bush and then Obama. The evidence says your just plain wrong.

That doesn't mean we should turn ourselves in, it means we're smart enough to know that anyone that thinks they can win a war against the US government using guns is a fool. That's not how revolutions are won.

Waiting for the government to oppress everyone equally is what it's going to take and that's many years off in the future.

Comment by fireguy on April 3, 2010 at 11:15am

Think what you will about Oathkeepers. And call it a fantasy that there are actual freedom loving Americans in the Military or any that one in the government will stand with us.

Your lack of faith is amazing to me.

Why don't you just go down to your local cop shop and turn your guns and yourselves in since there is no hope anyway.

Better yet, give go your guns to someone that gives a damn about freedom and then turn yourselves in.

The NWO is scared of Americans with weapons why else would there be all of this angst among them about free people retaining their rights to gun ownership.

Comment by Jeff on April 3, 2010 at 3:05am

I agree, they'll be shooting from every direction. That's a fact. If you believe the army or police won't fire on Americans, think again, that's a fantasy. A nice one, but it'll get you killed.

Comment by Jeff on April 3, 2010 at 1:58am

there are millions of gun owners who are avid watchers of Fox News and who hang on Glenn Beck's every word and believe "Al Qaeda" and "domestic terrorists" are the threat. What happens when these idiots are told we are the "domestic terrorists?"

Precisely, exactly, indubitably and definitely why I've said repeatedly that the military and the police won't hesitate to fire on American citizens while people here on this web site think the military will stand with the citizens. Absurd.

Comment by Wonder Woman on April 3, 2010 at 12:03am

Pre-crimes and entrapment. This is outrageous!

Comment by Jeff on April 2, 2010 at 8:12pm

We hold the power in our hands, the money and the work of commerce. Both should be withheld, now.

Comment by AZRanger on April 2, 2010 at 7:59pm

Hi Gary and Jeff! I agree with you Gary. They are are attempting to goad us into making the first move, and we MUST NOT allow that to happen, en mass. We need to take the moral high ground here, and stand firm against their acts of aggression.
I do want to add a couple of points to your argument Gary. (1) Lexington was not the first acts of violence that happened...on both sides. The British were roughing up colonists, and committing all sort of atrocitiesagainst individuals for some time before the outbreak of hostilties. The difference was that individuals fought back and were overwhelmed by the British use of a squad to go and take somebody they wanted, or to kick a family out of their home.
Lexington occurred when the colonial militia was sent to stop the British from ilegally taking the weapons stored at the armory. The me who stood on the green were members of the unorganized militia, but were reporting to no higher authority than their local commander. They had already drawn their line in the sand as a group, and said that this is what we will do, if they do this.
This is why the lantern count in the steeple. One, if by land and two if by sea! The British chose land, so one lantern usedd used to signal. The point s that the colonists had a plan on how they were going to deal with the threat, based on which scenario unfolded!
There was no guesswork involved in what they did. That's why when th British made their move, thy knew exactly how to counter it.
My point is that if we draw our line in the sand, then we will know when they have crossed it! I have been saying for over a year and a half that we need to decide what our plan will be. What do we do if the feds do "X", and wht will we do if the feds do "Y". And, BTW this concept does not mean that the only response is an armed response. There are a lot of othe means at our disposal. We can general strike. We can withhold funds. We can demonstrate. We can boycott, etc.
The problem is that right now we have no plan, and no centralized leadership. Mainly, that is because there is really no firm voice in the movement to speak for us! We have no rallying cry, or catchy tag line, like "Don't Tread On Me!" I like "Remember In November!"
In the Spirit of Liberty,
AZRanger
Deo Vindice!

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