What Would have Happened had the Axis forces Succeeded in Creating the A-Bomb first in WWII?
The revisionists have been busy since before World War I trying to re-invent US history making America into a bad actor rather than the beacon of hope and freedom it has been to the world. Employed by the rich families who owned the educational charitable trusts such as the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, the Carnegie Endowment, and the Phillips Academy among others, these tax exempt organizations, supposedly serving the scholarly needs of our young adults were actually paying writers to undermine the noble aspects of US history and interject Communism into the public classroom. Norman Dodd probed these questionable institutions and in his Reece Committee report attempted to make the Congress and senate aware of what was going on.
History as it was not as revised
Well, boys and girls it goes on today too. People who will say the use of the A-Bomb over Japan was unnecessary, that the US has been a negative force in the world, that our nation starts wars in order to have more influence, that America plunders and pillages third world nations to maintain a global advantage against the up and coming smaller countries around the globe. These false allegations characterize the internal strife we now have with uneducated children susceptible to ideologies that are diametrically opposed to the American exceptionalism. The truth has been transformed into political diatribe that vilifies the America that liberated the globe from two World Wars and spent billions in the rebuilding of and supplying a starving Europe, even Japan, and Western Germany.
A horrible scenario had the Axis forces persevered
As one Russian historian once pointed out, the Soviet Union was paranoid of America now possessing the Atomic Bomb, the B-29 to deliver it long range, and the P-51 Mustang to escort the big bombers deep into the Russian motherland. Yet, with two A-Bombs dropped “Fat Man” and “Little Boy” the US ceased the offensive use of these weapons while mass production of plutonium was underway at Oakridge, Tennessee and Hanford, Washington. Had American leadership and the military decided to be opportunistic, they now had the tools to force any resistance to submit or be obliterated by the gruesome capability of the A-bomb. Left up to Japan and Germany had the Axis powers won the nuclear arms race, the world would have been held hostage. Most likely, many examples would have had to be made as the Germans had mercilessly used unprotected Jewish prisoners and others to work the stock piles and atomic experiments unshielded from the deadly radioactivity!
Had evil succeeded
No doubt the US and the western hemisphere would have had to be repeatedly A-Bombed into submission by the Nazis if they had been able to manufacture enough of their plutonium to fuel the offensive weapons that they had planned such as their long range bombers along with the V-1 buzz bomb, the V-2 ICMB, and the A-9 long range booster rocket. With these delivery platforms the world most assuredly would have been afire. In contrast, America used restraint when it has the capability to annihilate not only the Nazis, but Communist China and other Marxist regimes in the Pacific region. Instead, we chose to bring WWII to a quick ending to save needless Allied casualties as well as to speed up the rebuilding of all nations who had suffered the wrath of the Nazis and the Imperial Empire of Japan.
Many more would perished
Much to chagrin of the revisionists, let me point out objective fact that illustrates why dropping the A-Bomb on 2 military targets in Japan saved lives rather than simply punished the Japanese because we are a racist nation, as the fools who take history out of context like they do. First, Japan had large numbers of forces still intact in regions such as Burma, China, Manchuria, the islands bypassed by the US Navy during its island hopping campaign, and even in the Philippines where US forces were still engaged in the fighting there. Yes, Japan might have been beaten technically, but it still could have continued to defy liberation with millions of troops still alive and willing to fight to the death in many parts of the Pacific theater.
Reluctance to use the A-Bomb
With 1 million Allied casualties estimated as a result of an amphibious assault of Japan alone, this doesn’t include the ongoing fighting in aforementioned areas such as Burma, China, Manchuria, and the Philippines that still could have continued to wage war. The absolutely absurd premise of the US research team at Los Alamos being anxious to be the first to detonate their big toy, this is a total farce! General Lesley Groves had a hard time convincing Robert Oppenheimer to finish the calculations and experiments it would take to finally create the A-Bomb for the first test at the “Trinity” site. Enrico Fermi, one of the top physicists, was convinced that one A-Bomb could ignite the entire atmosphere of the earth and encouraged a protest to President Truman before the A-Bomb could be deployed. The originators of the Atom Bomb were anything but ambitious over the use of the plutonium device as a weapon.
What was intended and what resulted
Besides, Russian spies had already penetrated Los Alamos and had stolen enough data that they would eventually been able to construct an A-Bomb of their own, so the US was damned if it did or damned if it didn’t drop the first two Atomic bombs to show the world who had the biggest stick and could use it if necessary? This brutal disclosure of a “Dooms Day” type weapon was intended to end all wars under the doctrine of M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction). Sadly, it marked the beginning of the “Cold War” as the two super powers struggled to proliferate their diplomacy and limited arms development.
Comment
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Comment by Parrhesia on December 18, 2022 at 4:25pm
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Admiral Leahy had access to the whole picture.
As far as MacArthur: According to Norman Cousins, the famed author and magazine editor, who was an aide to MacArthur: “MacArthur’s views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed....When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.”
Chester Nimitz: Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, said at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945: “The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war…The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan.”
Other countries didn't follow the rules, so it's okay that the US and UK didn't. Are you kidding me? Why do you think that the US and UK could do no wrong? Was it because we were fighting for a "noble cause"? How noble is it to bomb women and children when military leaders (even the ones you named) felt it was unnecessary? It absolutely broke the rules of war and had no military benefit. It was barbaric.
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Comment by Doc Vega on December 18, 2022 at 4:06pm
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Parrhesia Admiral Leahy was not a Chester Nimitz or a Douglas MacArthur he was not directly involved in theater operations. The men who fought and those who led them knew wanted the war over with as expediently as possible and just because you can name off which targets would be accepted by the Geneva Convention does not mean that either Japan not Germany followed those guide lines, they didn't. Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima were verified military targets. Nagasaki served as a Japanese military intelligence center. Hiroshima was a military supply and distribution center. Just as in Dallas, Ft. Worth, Oklahoma City, any military complex or its defense contractors all areas would be heavily civilian populated. facts are facts opinions are personal interpretations.
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You weren't there either, but military experts such as the Head of The Joint Chiefs of Staff who knew all the information were there and they disagree with your assessment of the need to bomb innocent women and children. I've talked to WW2 veterans also and not one of them presumed that they knew more than Admiral Leahy. They all were sickened by the willful bombing of women and children. Just because somebody else committed atrocities is no excuse.
The Nazi's advised against what the Japs did...the Nazi's did not carry out "terror bombings" on civilian cities and did not bomb London until the UK repeatedly bombed Berlin. The Nazi's did not fire-bomb Dresden. The Nazi's did not drop the A-bomb on women and children in Japan. I'm sure the Nazi's thought those acts were war crimes, and they were.
Even today, nowhere are civilian cities listed as legitimate military targets in the rules of war.
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Once again, the USSR had a non-aggression agreement with Germany, which explains why they did not get involved until Germany attacked them.
Half of Germany's military was fighting the USSR on the Eastern front, which meant that the European Theater had half as many Germans to fight. Yet somehow you believe fighting half as many soldiers and only half as much military equipment to fight against did not help the allies fighting on the Western Front. It may not have been a noble gesture, but it sure as hell made things easier for the allies in the European Theater and it was a great help to their efforts. Can you not see that fighting 3.5 million troops and half of Germany's military equipment was easier to beat than fighting 6.5 million troops and all of Germany's military might? It should be obvious. I did not say the USSR helped out of benevolence, just that they helped.
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Parrhesia, Once again on the allied estimates of casualties suffered by the liberating forces during an after an amphibious assault were around 1.7 million, Japanese civilian and military at least 5 million. This still did not include the continuing warfare in the theaters of Burma China, Philippines, and Manchuria. Two days prior to both bombing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki flyers were dropped in Japanese warning of a terrible devastation and to leave the area. There were millions of lives at stake civilian and military if the war were prolonged. The two bomb droppings were not hastily or frivolously decided upon. They were merely the lesser of the two evils. Japan was not finished they could fought on for another two years and the loss of life would have savagely continued. You weren't there, war weary, having lost friends and family, but those people were and it had nothing to do with racial or sadistic intentions, everyone had had enough! There were even islands across the Pacific that had been bypassed still full of enemy soldiers and armament. Passing a moral judgment on a different time and place is irrelevant and arrogance on your part. I have interviewed people from that era, soldiers, officers, intelligence officers, and family. They did what they had to do. The Japanese committed plenty of atrocities in China against the civilian populations of cities like Nanking so horrifically that even the Nazis ADVISED AGAINST WHAT THEY WERE DOING! The japs were by no means victims.
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Parrhesia, Once again Russia did nothing but defend and reclaim their own territory. They did nothing to help Europe that was intentional! The fact that Hitler decided to attack the USSR after taking all of Europe while the Soviets did absolutely nothing pretty much sums it up. And of course during that time Stalin was busy having his top generals executed along with many innocent high ranking officers and civilians due to his paranoia. The fact that Hitler's bid to repeat Napoleon's stupidity was not any noble gesture by Russia.
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The USSR did nothing to help Europe? They diverted the Nazis to the Eastern Front which they fought by themselves. This took German troops and military equipment away from Europe and so the British and US had fewer Germans to fight. For the campaign against the Soviet Union, the Germans allotted almost 150 divisions containing a total of about 3,000,000 men (some sources say closer to 4,000,000). Among these were 19 panzer divisions, and in total the “Barbarossa” force had about 3,000 tanks, 7,000 artillery pieces, and 2,500 aircraft. The peak strength of the German Wehrmacht (the entire military, not just the army) is given by John Keegan's The Times Atlas of the Second World War at about 10,800,000. The most soldiers the German army, the Heer, (not counting Luftwaffe or SS units), had at any one time was about 6,500,000. Can you not see that this helped the fight in Europe? As research would show, Russia paid back the lend-lease and the lend-lease to the USSR saved European lives. As far as the US being attacked by Germany, I meant a force of 3,000,000 men did not invade our country like happened to the USSR.
I didn't mean Churchill masterminded anything. I meant he was a puppet and insisted on the war because his masters wanted war. Churchill was a drunk, a gambler, always lived above his means, was always getting bailed out by elites and was influenced by the Rothchilds his entire life because of his father's close, lifelong relationship with them. Few people in history were more easily controlled. But you believe the "feel good" propaganda movies instead of actually researching and then claim I revise history.
A bit of research would also reveal that the UK (and France) had signed an "Agreement of Mutual Assistance" with Poland on August 25, 1939. When Germany invaded Poland about a week later in September, France and Britain sat doing very little while Poland was annihilated other than declare war on Germany. In August 1939 the USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Germany. The USSR did not have an agreement with Poland, the UK and France did. So why would you expect the USSR to protect Poland?
It should be obvious that bombing biolabs that contain Anthrax (and who knows what else) is an extremely bad idea, as the chemicals would be released into the air. Russia presented concerns on many occasions for many years and were blown off. The US denied the labs existed while the DOD was funding them. But Putin is the bad guy. Again, research would have shown you this fact. Just like the slightest amount of research would have brought up the Minsk Agreement and you wouldn't have asked why Putin didn't try diplomacy at the beginning of the special operation.
There is zero evidence that Putin beat up anyone in interrogations. On the other hand, there is absolute evidence that the CIA has been caught on several occasions abusing prisoners, but I'm just an anti-American for pointing that out. You are revising history by making false accusations.
I am basing my assumptions on what you say. Bombings in Japan, Dresden and Churchill's "terror bombings" on German civilian cities...this was pure evil. Men are supposed to protect women and children and those weaker. Especially when those men are soldiers. A real man could not justify killing women and children to save soldiers who job it is to protect civilians. Guess you were all on board with the My Lai massacre too. Between 347 and 504 unarmed people were killed by the US Army. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12. But keep talking about how bad other countries are while revising history by ignoring US atrocities. Maybe the US hasn't dropped the "bomb" again, but it still bullies other countries by having 900 military bases all over the world and intervening in other countries. Fact: The US has been in over 200 wars since WW2, but we're not Imperialists, meanwhile you claim Russia is Imperialist. Keep lying to yourself.
I doubt the MSM saying Putin is not popular and is in danger of being ousted. Russians don't like other ethnic Russians in the Donbas being attacked on a daily basis for eight years by Kiev any more than any other country would like their ethnic relatives being attacked. It seems the majority of Russians support defending the Donbas and Russia from NATO. In your own words "NATO was put in place from the beginning due to Stalin's threats". Stalin died in 1953. The Soviet Union died in 1991. Accept these facts and quit acting like Putin is Stalin and Russia is communist. There is no longer any need for NATO except to bully for the Globalists/UN.
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Parrhesia,
You work off a lot of assumptions on my part that are inherently incorrect so if you want to know what I think you need to read some of my articles rather than make faulty assumptions! Biden has close ties with the Chinese? He should be fucking impeached for that and a number of other reasons. Mitch McConneell has a Chinese wife with large interests in Chinese maritime shipping he sould aslo be impeached as he is a fucking RINO and an anti conservative to begin with, The US had not used its nuclear power to to bully other nations as a matter of fact the US has tried to stop Communist nations from acquiring nukes in order to reduce the probablity of an intentional orm accidental exchange. NATO was put in place from the beginning due to Stalin's threats to overrun Europe and maintianing a huge armored vehicle poresence on the borders of the Eastern Bloc and Western Europe. USSR aggression has been the key in the past to the way things are now! Makes no difference how westerinzed Russian has become, the perception was created due to the USSR's imperialistic stance on the Communist annexation of eastern European countries (Satellite Nations) and the iron fisted way they were ruled! You keep going on about FDR and CHruschill as if they are the master planners of WWII which is complete total farce! When Great Britain was isolated after Europe was overrun by the Bliztkrieg and in danger of starvation over the wold pack U-Boats taking a huge toll on the British shipping Churchill had to poractically beg FDR for any assistance at all! What the hell do you mean that America was not attacked by Germany before the declaration of war? Germany was torpedoing US merchant marines off the fucking coast of Florida and the rest of the US eatern seaboard in 1940! The US Navy was so overlooked and underfunded that they were overwehelmed and had to relocate destroyers from the already undermanned Pacific Fleet in oorder to achieve some semblence of a coastal defense! Once again Russia did absolutely nothing to help Europe or the US they didn't even want US pilots in shot up planes to head for a neutral Russian airfield and when it did happened whty would detain the US aairmen for months. Poland stood starved, broken, and ravaged and Stalin intentionally ignored saving the Poles and the Warsaw ghetto where people starved to death on a daily basis. All Russia did as we leant them billions in armament was cover their ass! Russia was perfectly fine with Hitler fucking Europe up, torpedoing Allied shipping and taking over Scandinanvia until Hitler broke his treaty with them them and then here we are lening them billions in military supplies. Don't give your ignorant revision of history.
As for Puitn, he didn't have to bring all those troops to the border of Ukraine he could have used cruise missiles and attack copters to take out the Bio weapons labs he could have submitted his evidence to the Hague as legal record of his grievances but being the bone headed KGB agent of 16 years who loved beating the shit out of people during interrogations he instead fucked Russia and Ukraine at the same time in a pointless all out war that now threatens his position as president of Russia!
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Biden has close ties with the Communist Chinese, (of course it would be anti-American to mention that) but Putin having ties with their neighbor China...OMG! It's the end of the damn world and America is in danger.
The US had agreements with Japan as far as oil, but, as usual, you think America has the right to just cut them off because everyone must obey the US. The "big stick" US can tell other countries what they can or cannot do or, like a parent, they can take away whatever they want and spank them. (BTW, this is what the US govt is doing to you right now.) On the other hand, the US can interfere in any other country and it's okie dokie. Drone strikes on civilians in mid-east countries that were absolutely no threat to us, fine. 500,000 dead Iraqi children, worth it. Yugoslavia didn't want to cooperate with NATO, blow them off the map. The list goes on and on. But just ignore the history of the US doing this, since it interferes with your idealistic view of the US. The US implemented restrictions on Japan because FDR and Churchill wanted the US in the damn war, so they conspired to put pressure on Japan so they would attack, and FDR would have his reason to send Americans in to die. Ah, the glory of war!
Russia was attacked by Germany and were forced into the war, unlike the US. They fought bravely and were far more responsible for the defeat of Germany than the US. Then their "allies" the US and UK shit on them when the war was over. You can say whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the USSR deserves a lot of credit for the win over Germany.
As I have pointed out before, Churchill ordered several "terror bombings" on the civilians in Berlin before Germany ever attacked London. Do you actually believe that Germany was the bad guy when they finally retaliated?
The LGBTQ+ crap is Weimer Republic crap and the Germans wanted change which is how the Nazis got in power - because they were against that BS. But, but let's talk about how the USSR treated people bad, so we will just assume that if they had the bomb first, they would have attacked civilians. Oh wait...that's what the US did. But they're bad and the US is good, so it okay.
It takes a really sick and twisted individual to think it's acceptable to bomb women and children "to save soldiers from dying". How can one not see the difference between soldiers dying in war and bombing civilians? This from the guy screaming about Putin killing civilians, but then you weren't concerned about the civilians in the Donbas getting bombed by Kiev for 8 years. (Also US backed.) Guess it depends on what civilians are getting bombed. If Japan had attacked Honolulu instead of bombing Pearl Harbor and killed children so that Japan could save their soldiers...would that be justified? Besides, military people who knew what was going on said bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unnecessary, as surrender was imminent. The same can be said of Dresden.
You have the notion that the US is above all other countries, and it was ordained by God to rule over everyone. You may want to consider that the US has turned its back on God and is no longer the country that is built on morality. That slide started a long time ago and became cemented when we bombed innocent civilians in Japan and helped fire-bomb civilians in Dresden. I'm against what the US has done in its worldwide military campaign and the pathetic shell of what it once was (which is all Globalist driven). If you can get past your idealism and critically look at the actions and the current state of the US and still support it. I don't know what to say.
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Parrhesia, Why did the US implement restrictions on Japan? Could have been their inhuman slaughters being imposed upon Manchuria since 1929 and refusal to negotiate a peace? Could it have been their weaponizing of the Gilbert Solomon, and Mariana island chains" Did you really think that the US Navy would not observe these developments as stepping stones to war or that Japan had not intended this to be the prelude to war? The initial plan was to take several rapid fire victories over the US held island bases and then negotiate for a territorial peace arrangement thinking the US would feel that they would be in an uphill battle having lost so many early battles and possession of Pacific territory. Also, remember that most of the US Naval outposts were not prepared for offensive actions they were operating much as the US Coast Guard merely keeping shipping lanes opened and providing search and rescue along with trade shipments. There's no doubt about Japanese intentions. They hadn't lost a sea war in thousands of years and expected to do the same with the US Navy at the turn of the century Japan had been secretly studying modern US battle ship design and copying those designs in their own fleets. There was absolutely nothing innocent about Japan's approach to occupying the Pacific Ocean they planned for it to be their empire and they would crush whoever opposed them. You know, kind of like what the Communist Chinese are doing now in the South China Sea and the Taiwan straits building artificial weaponized islands way beyond the 200 mile international limit of coastal waters rule.
If you bother to read my articles you would know that I have no particular trust or love of government issued statements or socially influential actions, but the problem is the interpretation that you take attributing negative intent upon the Marshall Plan and saying that the US pushed Japan who had already invaded China into an unwanted confrontation. Pearl Harbor then would never have happened. It is impossible to go back in time and thoroughly understand the mindset of the people then under those circumstances, but the last thing America wanted was another major war.
You can attribute all the nobility you want to Russia, but all they did was defend and recapture their lost territory they didn't give a damn about helping Europe or the Allies. Stalin wanted was power and the best militarized way of arriving at it as his intention was spreading Communism all over the globe if possible.
Now you speak of the WEF, LGBTQ, NATO, CIA, and all the perverted sexual sociological programming we see today, isn't that the globalist faction, yes America and many other western nations have been infected with this toxicity of social engineering that there is no excuse for! However, what the KGB, Gulag, SVR, FSB and FSO, GUSP, not to mention the wonderous Siberian salt mines did to the peasants, the citizens, of Russia is absolutely unthinkable to where neighbors turned in neighbors, children turned in their parents for being intolerant of the Communist ideology. How do you think the USSR would have handled being the first nation to develop the Atomic Bomb? Would they have shown restraint or mercy to Germany, the west or even Japan? I don't think so!
The infiltration of the western hemisphere sprouting Marxist regimes through out Central America, Cuba, and South America in violation of the Monroe Doctrine. Sorry, I see the Russians just as hostile and willing to militarily impose their ideology as any other aggressor. Should there be a peaceful co-existence with them. Obviously yes. But, as long as America and the Russians play the cold war game they only tempt fate due to some accident or miscalculation.
But, here's the kicker. Putin has close ties with the Communist Chinese who are foaming at the mouth to take Taiwan and when that happens all hell will break lose and do you think Russia would stay out of it?
One of the major precepts of war is that when a country can no longer protect its civilian interior, cities, culture, from outside threat. The war has been lost and all nations tend to accept that as a premise for surrender. What the US did in WWII was cut off the head of the snake as a large part of the body was still alive and still capable of conducting warfare.
Dresden, Schweinfurt, what about London under the terror of the V-1 and the V-2 not to mention the Battle of Britain? The only damn thing that saved Londoners was the underground railway tunnel system where civilians, if alerted in time, could get to adequate protection. Germany had no noble respect for civilians, they did not exercise it in Poland in particular as the SS divisions sought to slaughter civilians and Allied forces alike in unusually cruel and inhuman ways.
The way you vilify America all the time it's like Russian propaganda. You cannot deny that the US did much to help its allies and alleviate suffering and I'm sorry dude if having to incinerate 300 thousand of the enemy's civilians to stop 1 million Allied casualties from happening along with trying to mop up the very large remains of Japan's forces in China, Burma, Manchuria, and the Philippines to end the war quicker, that's just a very sad damned if you do or damned if you don't situation.
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