Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nobody Will Observe on August 3, 2013 at 10:28pm

Mike, or may I call you KFC;) Sorry that hat is too funny!

"The issue is whether a teacher's job should now also include tactical handgun training"

Where does it say must?

The only paranoia I see, is of the right of self defense on your part.

Your point of 'Contract Law' has some merit. But why should they have to sign any rights away to be teachers, or forced to work in a 'Can not' defend your self or others work place?

All the elite children are guarded by armed personal. Are average Citizens of lesser value in your opinion?

Yours is the fear paranoia argument. Mine is of liberty. With all due respect Sir.

Also it wasn't that long ago in America that guns were legal. Even students. Where were all the shootings? People had gun racks in their cars. Oh how soon we all forget and become brainwashed!

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Permalink Reply by Mike Lowery on August 3, 2013 at 10:53pm

  This is where issues of having one's rights at any given time gets weird.  As an adult, when you have signed a contract you are giving implied consent to the contract holder that you have read and understood all the contract's requirements and that by signing it you AGREE to all requirements.  In the eyes of the law, as an adult, you are able to make your own decisions and understand those decision's consequences.  So being under contract can also do things like suspend your constitutional rights while you are under said contract.  This is why military personnel are not charged nor tried in a court of American law but by the military court when they have broken laws while active or broken military laws/codes.  They are contracted in the military service  to the USA.  Their constitutional rights do not apply unless their contract includes them.  

  As a civilized society we have collectively agreed to this idea that guns are not appropriate to have on one's person in certain places.  Even if you have a concealed carry you aren't supposed to have any type of weapon on your person in certain places.  Like banks for example.  By banking at a bank that forbids patrons to have firearms on them while inside the bank will all be in the fine print of the contract you signed with them for an account.  This also includes a person you write a check to who doesn't have an account but wants to cash it at that bank.  Your check to them is a contract of legal binding and they agree to your contract with the bank by accepting your check as a payment to them.  It's a fuckin tangled mess of red tape but it stands in a court of law.  That is where any major ruling on stuff like our rights is weighed and measured.

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Permalink Reply by Nobody Will Observe on August 3, 2013 at 11:12pm

As I said: "Your point of 'Contract Law' has some merit" understood and agree, to a point.

"As a civilized society we have collectively agreed to this idea that guns are not appropriate to have on one's person in certain places"  REALLY when??? You mean we were told that, or what? The brainwashed masses feel it's for their own good? Yeah ok glad you had your vote on the matter.

In any public place: "No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law,
and no courts are bound to enforce it." American Juris Prudence 16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177, late 2d, Sec 256 Law of the land.

If a privately owned institution wishes to have no fire arms then that is a different story.

As for the Military, It's national defense and must have strict chain of command and strict order.

Getting very redundant, this conversation. Your for controlled rights. I'm not.

Perhaps you agree with these Statist?

Al Sharpton On 2nd Amendment_ 'People Do Not Have The Right ...
► 5:04	www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSFOURSo1qUJan 28, 2013 - 5 min - Uploaded by MrCensorMe1 You need Adobe Flash Player to watch this video. Download it from Adobe. Al Sharpton On ... I DON'T!

Disclaimer: I Don't agree with the added end of that copy of the vid also!

Permalink Reply by Mike Lowery on August 3, 2013 at 11:10pm

  My personal opinion about gun ownership and concealed carry is whoever wants one or both, more power to ya!  I do feel guns are probably better left in your gun safe at home than at school and court.  Those are the only two places where I agree people shouldn't have guns.  Court because very emotional subject matter is often spoken about there and people who are charged with committing heinous acts to others are publicly tried there. This can and has in the past made people affected by proceedings to come unglued and shoot somebody because of it.  Schools because kids aren't all aware of gun safety and that in itself can cause horrible consequences for many people in just a split second.  Just because one person's kid has been educated about the safety needed to handle a gun doesn't mean somebody else's kid knows that.  Same for teachers.  Most of my teachers were not people I felt would be acceptable candidates for carrying a concealed handgun on the job.

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Permalink Reply by Nobody Will Observe on August 3, 2013 at 11:28pm

Perhaps the Judges would do a better job;)?

1. Gun Clubs at School | National Review Online

   www.nationalreview.com/.../gun-clubs-school-charles-c-w-cooke - Cached

   Jan 21, 2013 ... Shooting clubs, now quietly withering away, were once such a mainstay of
   American high-school life that in the first half of the 20th century they ...

2. Gun Clubs at School: Not so long ago, they were common — and safe.

   freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2980293/posts - Cached

   Jan 21, 2013 ... Shooting clubs, now quietly withering away, were once such a mainstay of
   American high-school life that in the first half of the 20th century they ...

3. Did anyone elses high school have a shooting range? - OpenCarry.org

   forum.opencarry.org/.../showthread.php?...high-school...shooting-range - Cached

   Aug 4, 2008 ... (I think there are a lot bigger social issues to the school shooting problem, but ...
   Join Date: Mar 2007; Location: Virginia USA, ,; Posts: 1,682 ... in 2000), up until
   the mid-70's my high school had an indoor shooting range.

WE/YOU? HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED! Where were all the victims that you fear?  Every point I make you move on to another one?

I believe in the Bill of Rights. You believe in limiting them. For the better good of coarse;) Slippery slope!!! Comrade;)

Best regards, enjoyed talking with you.

Permalink Reply by Mike Lowery on August 3, 2013 at 11:28pm

 I'm being realistic about what really is affecting the issue.  I absolutely do not agree with "controlled rights".  The term is an oxymoron.  I am stating why there is even an issue with having a gun on one's person is allowed and not allowed in certain places at certain times.  IMPLIED CONSENT!  If you feel you didn't consent to a certain piece of legislature that made it illegal to bring your gun to court say, you are free to object to it's passing and to create a piece of legislature to overturn it.  This is how it is done.  Constitutionally even!   If you have a social security number and pay your taxes and ssi fees you to, agree to controlling one's rights.  Income tax is UNCONSTITUTIONAL it has been proven to be in a court of law.  Then why do so many persons go to prison for not paying income tax?  They are right to say it is unconstitutional to tax their income but they do not realize the fact that by getting a social security number and participating in the SSI game that they have given their consent to paying income tax because of their CONTRACT to the federal government through their Social Security obligations!  Their constitutional rights are null and void in their defense of not paying taxes due to the unconstitutionality of it.

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Permalink Reply by Central Scrutinizer on August 2, 2013 at 8:43pm

a gun safe protocol I would imagine

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Permalink Reply by suzie on August 2, 2013 at 12:45pm

interesting discussion: i took a concealed weapons course years ago .. in my opinion everyone should be learned in how to use, when to use, and why to use and who to discharge an arm on.. i believe there use to be rifle clubs in schools years ago. kids could put there rifles in there lockers if you back far enough .. the ignorance of all arms (firearms ect. has made so many people so afraid of a "gun " its rediculous .. anyone who volunteers to learn and train will know the great responsibility it is to own and carry a weapon .. if any thing we need more education in "the gun" not this hysteria over all the "what if" situations .. even just holding and discharging a "gun" shows you immediately the power behind the "gun" more education stop the fear mongering about a "tool" that could save not only your own life but the life of others .. are we all stuck in kindergarden? a gun should not be feared by moral people who have a natural right to defend themselves it should be encouraged and all the FEAR taken out of it .. all teachers will not be comfortable carrying a concealed "gun" but the ones who chose to carry should be praised IMO the "bad guys will never know which teacher is armed .. i like those odds better than run and hide for the corrupt "protectors " to get there and hope the bad guys don't find you first 

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Permalink Reply by Chip on August 2, 2013 at 12:55pm

Well said Suzie.

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Permalink Reply by Nobody Will Observe on August 2, 2013 at 8:50pm

Here Here Suzie.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Lowery on August 3, 2013 at 11:48pm

Where are what victims?  What fear?  If you're speaking about why I support not letting kids and school employees being allowed to bring guns to school is this, Since I am responsible for many of the decisions my child(although I have none I am playing the part) makes until they are 18 years of age.  I know how easy it was to make stupid decisions that caused me problems and my parents as well when I was a kid.  So when I think of a group of youngsters goofing around at school and one of them shows everybody they have a gun and it passes oround the crowd, I sure hope every one of those kids understands what the fuck they have in their hand when its their turn to check it out.  If you feel different then you don't believe in the rule of law and therefore don't have a dog in the fight anyways. 

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Permalink Reply by Nobody Will Observe on August 3, 2013 at 11:57pm

"I am responsible for many of the decisions my child(although I have none I am playing the part)"

LMAO!

"I sure hope every one of those kids understands what the fuck they have in their hand when its their turn to check it out"

Well with your logic (playing the part) LMAO again!  Your making dam sure they don't ever!

BEST ONE!!!

"If you feel different then you don't believe in the rule of law and therefore don't have a dog in the fight anyways"

The rule of law is a Republic. Not Tyrannical, nor Democracy. The rules are in place. Try reading them @ A REPUBLIC; IF YOU CAN KEEP IT?

Once upon a time, it was common for an American child to be packed off to school with a rifle on his back and for him to come home smiling and safe in the evening. Shooting clubs, now quietly withering away, were once such a mainstay of American high-school life that in the first half of the 20th century they were regularly installed in the basements of new educational buildings. Now, they are in their death throes, victims of political correctness, a willful misunderstanding of what constitutes “gun safety,” and our deplorable tendency toward litigiousness.

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In 1975, New York state had over 80 school districts with rifle teams. In 1984, that had dropped to 65. By 1999 there were just 26. The state’s annual riflery championship was shut down in 1986 for lack of demand. This, sadly, is a familiar story across the country. The clubs are fading from memory, too. A Chicago Tribune report from 2007 notes the astonishment of a Wisconsin mother who discovered that her children’s school had a range on site. “I was surprised, because I never would have suspected to have something like that in my child’s school,” she told the Tribune. The district’s superintendent admitted that it was now a rarity, confessing that he “often gets raised eyebrows” if he mentions the range to other educators. The astonished mother raised her eyebrows — and then led a fight to have the range closed. “Guns and school don’t mix,” she averred. “If you have guns in school, that does away with the whole zero-tolerance policy.”

But how wise is that “zero-tolerance policy”? Until 1989, there were only a few school shootings in which more than two victims were killed. This was despite widespread ownership of — and familiarity with — weapons and an absence of “gun-free zones.” As George Mason University economist Walter E. Williams has observed, for most of American history “private transfers of guns to juveniles were unrestricted. Often a youngster’s 12th or 14th birthday present was a shiny new .22-caliber rifle, given to him by his father.” This was a right of passage, conventional and uncontroversial across the country. “Gee, Dad . . . A Winchester!” read one particularly famous ad. “In Virginia,” Williams writes, “rural areas had a long tradition of high-school students going hunting in the morning before school, and sometimes storing their guns in the trunk of their cars during the school day, parked on the school grounds.” Many of these guns they could buy at almost any hardware store or gas station — or even by mail order. The 1968 Gun Control Act, supported happily by major gun manufacturers who wished to push out their competition, put a stop to this.

Catalogs and magazines from the 1940s, ’50s, and ’60s are packed full of gun advertisements aimed at children or parents. “What Every Parent Should Know When a Boy or Girl Wants a Gun,” one proclaims, next to a picture of a young boy and his sister excitedly presenting a “Rifle Catalog.” “Get This Cowboy Carbine with Your Christmas Money,” suggests another. It was placed widely in boys’ magazines by the Daisy Manufacturing Company of Plymouth, Mich. All a teenager needed do to be sent a rifle was send a money order for $2.50 and tick a box confirming they were old enough.

In one cartoon from the 1950s, two boys discuss a rifle in front of their father. “It’s safe for him to use, isn’t it, Dad?” the first boy asks. “Sure,” Dad responds. “Pete knows the code of the junior rifleman.” Back then, Pete almost certainly did. As John Lott Jr. has noted, once upon a time,

it was common for schools to have shooting clubs. Even in New York City, virtually every public high school had a shooting club up until 1969. It was common for high school students to take their guns with them to school on the subways in the morning and turn them over to their homeroom teacher or the gym coach so the heavy guns would simply be out of the way. After school, students would pick up their guns when it was time for practice.

That is, if they handed them in at all. Up until the ’70s, especially in rural areas, it was commonplace to see kids entering and leaving their school campuses with rifle bags slung lazily over their backs. Guns were left in school lockers, and rifles and shotguns were routinely seen in high-school parking lots, hanging in the rear windows of pickup trucks. A good friend of mine is from North Dakota. His father was telling me recently that in the late 1960s he would hunt before school and then take his rifle — and his bloodstained kills — to school to show his teachers. He and his friends would compare their shooting techniques in the school grounds. Nobody batted an eyelid. In North Dakota, school shootings were non-existent; in the country at large, they were extremely rare.

I'm really out this time. You can have the last statism.

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