Comment

Comment by Jeff on December 25, 2009 at 7:36am

Well Greg, I don't oppose the whole damn bill. As a poor person that wouldn't be covered were it not for the benevolence of the state I have to accept some bad with the good. I posted what I've been able to find thus far at the link below and I've found several IMPORTANT factors to be happy about.

The bill is NOT in its final form so reading it might very well be a waste of time since both the Senate and the House still have intentions of making changes.

What I won't accept Greg, and you can if you'd like, are a bunch of people that hate something because other people hate it. That's poor judgment and actually it's worse then poor judgment, it's stupidity.

Greg, you know full well my absolute disdain for anything government. That's a fact. I'm a government hater. I despise them all. I like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich until they pass certain bills and then I want them gone too. I'm an equal opportunity government hater.

So don't mistake my position here for standing up for a bill that likely sucks for Grandma and me in many ways but also probably has a few things we'll like.

My position here is that even more, I despise people that form opinions based on other peoples opinions because they're too damn lazy to access the information themselves. This bill, as I'm certain you know, is the single most important piece of social legislation that will come out of this administration and in fact the previous 5 or 10 administrations as far as national reform legislation is concerned and people here HAVE NO CLUE because they can't present a single rational argument based on facts and THAT GREG IS VERY, VERY SAD.

I agree with you Greg, 99.9% of the time. We agree with one another almost always. And here, you also agree with me or you wouldn't be reading the bill.

So excuse me for playing the devils advocate but perhaps by doing so a few people might get off their duffs and read a vital piece of legislation that will have a life changing effect instead of parroting the opinions of others who might be completely wrong.

I found several aspects of the legislation that are positive as they are currently written and posted them HERE.

Any bill this large effecting this many people is bound to have positive aspects to it and negative aspects as well.

Comment by Jeff on December 25, 2009 at 1:56am

In fact. let's go a step further.

This is the single most important piece of social legislation in my lifetime. It won't effect me personally since I have no income but it effects many, many of YOU. So, since this is the single most important piece of social legislation in our lifetimes where are the factually supported arguments for or against it??

Comment by Jeff on December 25, 2009 at 1:53am

5Fires, you responded to a comment. Nothing wrong with that. Others owe the apology you so kindly provided for them.

Comment by 5Fires on December 25, 2009 at 1:24am

sorry...didn't mean to get off track..

Comment by Jeff on December 25, 2009 at 12:46am

I never said I don't have the faintest idea of what I'm talking about dearie, I said I didn't read the bill. Get it? And neither did you I would assume. You're creating an opinion based on the opinion of others. That's special.

Isn't it special that I have free health care? No, it isn't. Most people, poor people that is, and especially people without an income have free health care and as I said, of the 50 states Minnesota Care and Medica have been rated number one. I like my health care options, a lot.

I would simply like to see, right here, an argument based on factual data gleaned from the health care bill.

There isn't one.

PLEASE, someone provide something based on facts regarding this bill.

Why is that too much to ask?

I didn't read the bill. I thanked Greg for the link. I have no reason to read it because my own health care coverage will not change.

I suspect, based on the almost 1 trillion dollars spent by lobbyists that the bill is badly conceived and offers significant changes that won't be beneficial to Grandma and me.

However, I have not seen ONE PERSON present any factual evidence regarding just what it is they oppose. WTF?

Greg, the 'Death Panels' claim has been made. Some say true and some say not true. Does anyone have the passages FROM THE BILL that they oppose? I realize it's almost 2,000 pages but it's a rather important social change being touted by the Obama administration and one would think that people would be using the bill to demonstrate their opinions as opposed to parroting Alex Jones and his opinions which are sometimes on the edge of the far side.

Comment by 5Fires on December 24, 2009 at 10:09pm

Right... Denise, That is Messiah defining himself, as he sees himself through the eyes of the Spirit, but who do you say he is, if you were one of his disciples? There's no right or wrong answer. He doesn't define your spirituality and nor should you try to define spirituality for anyone else. Christianity has a very bad habit of telling everyone what they should or have to believe, and there's nothing in the scripture which supports that, not even in the words, "I am the way the Truth, and the Life."

At large, Western Christianity only practices the doctrine of the Abstract and discounts the doctrine of the concrete functional. That's why many of Yisrael rejected Messiah. Until Messiah came, Yisrael only practiced the concrete functional edicts of Life, basically the realm of Possibility was considered witch craft. Western Christianity considers the realm of Possibility absent of the name Jesus to be "New Age or Occult.

Concrete Functional, identifies with purpose, which is why Messianic Believers call the Messiah by his supreme Purpose, Yahshuah, translated from Hebrew that means the Salvation of Yahweh. Resurrection is abstract, so in our system of belief we join the concrete function with the abstract and thus the Law is fulfilled. the messiah did not come to define the Law, instead he came to fulfill the Law by demonstrating the concrete functional Purpose and the Abstract as one. Jesus, is Abstract. Yahshuah is Concrete Purpose and Abstract, and by faith an individuals spirituality is defined. Another way to see all of that is, Competitive v Creative. Yahshuah demonstrates Creativity rather then Competitiveness. Creativity requires Faith; Competitiveness, requires void aka sin

so you wouldn't pray for me to be drawn to his "loving kindness" but rather that I would discover my purpose and then be inspired to be creative and functional rather than abstract and competitive.

Comment by Jeff on December 24, 2009 at 5:22pm

To relegate Allah to the back of the bus, well, you get it...

Comment by 5Fires on December 24, 2009 at 5:19pm

Actually could someone please show me where Yahshuah Messiah, whom many call Jesus said, I and or anyone has the authority to define spirituality for another?

Does the clay choose which artisan shall make the bowl?

To imagine there is no religion is not the same as imagining there is no god.

Comment by Jeff on December 24, 2009 at 5:05pm

"What does the poor man in America do right now, when he needs healthcare?"

How poor Yahya? I have state funded health care in Minnesota, the very best state health care, rated number 1 out of 50 states. I pay nothing. I have awesome care. It's immediate, and it covers anything, 100%.

Comment by Jeff on December 24, 2009 at 5:00pm

Thanks for the link Greg.

I have NO INTENTION of reading the health care bill but at the same time I have no intention of complaining about it either.

See, people here like to complain and that's OK but in this particular case they've simply jumped on a bandwagon and have joined the complaint trolley. That doesn't mean they know shit about what it is they're complaining about nor does it mean their complaints are justified, it just means they're making these squeaking noises that are irritating as all get out.

No one complaining here can verbalize what it is they don't like about the bill.

No one here can make an intelligent argument against the bill.

Now, that doesn't mean I think it's a good bill, it means I think people need to be informed before they complain about something. That means they need to know what it is they're complaining about and it also means, most of the time, that they should be providing an alternative solution. Otherwise you become just so much insignificant irritating noise. Even worse than a really bad song.

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