Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Marklar on March 14, 2012 at 3:54pm

But, but, how's a parasite supposed to feed his mate and larva?

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Permalink Reply by Amaterasu Solar on March 15, 2012 at 2:35pm

LOL!  How about by getting rid of the need for money, thereby eliminating profit motive?

Yeah, broken record, I am, but so many issues are solved with the removal of the need for money.

http://www.change.org/petitions/us-military-release-the-technology-...

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Permalink Reply by suzie on March 15, 2012 at 2:52pm

@ Amaterasu How do you get people to work for nothing but a pat on the back and a well done! Even in a barter system whatever you barter becomes the money ..   i have looked at your link it doesn't explain

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Permalink Reply by Amaterasu Solar on March 15, 2012 at 3:25pm

First, in abundance with robots doing all the necessary jobs no One WANTS to do, no One HAS to work at all.

Second, when People are freed to follow Their bliss, MANY find bliss in doing things that help Others.

Take a look at Linux, for one example.  There are many whose bliss it is to program better than what's out there.  There are many who will offer Their work freely, for the payment of appreciation, lauds, gratitude, name-recognition, and Self-satisfaction.  No One who programs for Linux makes money - in any form (barter, trade, work exchange, coin, bills, electronic funds).  Yes, there are People who are trying to sell software the runs on Linux, but Linux itself was created for free and developed for free.

If You are doing what You LOVE to do, that is all the motivation You need.  Pats on the back and bucks in the bank are irrelevant.

Some People LOVE to fight crime or fires...  Some People LOVE to work on robots or electronics or engines... Some People LOVE to cook for Others or design cloths or make clothes or grow gardens or...

Self-satisfaction will be the most prominent form of payment.

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Permalink Reply by Vincent L. Guarisco on March 15, 2012 at 4:34pm

Personally, I'm intrigued at the idea of eliminating "money." Of course, bartering (in the absense of fair trade practices) does have it's risks too.

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Permalink Reply by Amaterasu Solar on March 16, 2012 at 12:05am

When I say get rid of the need for money, I mean get rid of the need for it in ALL its forms:  barter, trade, work exchange, coin, bills, electronic funds.  Where You can go to the web and order whatever You want and it will be delivered by robots (or any whose bliss it is to deliver things - if there are any).

All that money represents is meaningful energy expended in an energy-scarce society.  Add abundant free energy and the need for money dissipates, especially when One adds robots to do all necessary jobs no One WANTS to do, and We will have no need for money of any kind.  Everything is free at that point.

One can grasp this most easily by considering the first hunter, fisherperson, gatherer, farmer, miner. The stuff They gained/used was free: critters, fish, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seed, sun, soil, rain, ores. It was the meaningful energy expended that gave "value" to the stuff: the killing, fishing, picking, tilling, weeding, harvesting, mining, transporting.

When the energy is vastly abundant - through electrogravitics or other overunity tech - and robots are doing things We need done but don't have enough of Us (or any) whose bliss it is to do these things - the abundance of the planet will flow to ALL of Us, and none will have power over Others but ALL will have autonomous power over Self.

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Permalink Reply by Vincent L. Guarisco on March 16, 2012 at 12:14am

I imagine you already know about the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement?

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Permalink Reply by Amaterasu Solar on March 16, 2012 at 1:15am

Yes, indeed.  I wrote this up:

Why Venus and Zeitgeist Don't Have It Quite Right

I might presume that most of You are aware of the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement.  What Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph fail to grasp, in Each's approach to a "resource based economy" is that the planet We live on is vastly abundant, and the universe offers incalculable amounts of energy. 

As all economies of today are based on energy, with money needed to account for the meaningful energy expended, adding abundant energy eliminates the need for an economy as We presently know it. 

(For more on the basis of economies in an energy-scarce world, see My blog:  http://12160.info/profiles/blog/list?user=140qdp6r9v238) 

Adding overunity in a form drawing on the "dark" energy of the universe allows the elimination of an economy altogether, in any sense We Humans grasp as an economy today.  As resource abundance and energy abundance flow, the economy will become a social one, not resource-based. 

Released to follow One's bliss, We all will place value, not on resources, but on reputation. 

To illustrate this I will offer an example of a painter - but this could be a scientist, an architect, a programmer, a robotics expert, or any other bliss-driven activity that offers betterment. 

In the abundance paradigm, Our artist may order Her brushes, paints and canvases (all created by robots and any whose bliss it is to create these things) from the web, delivered to Her by robots (or, should there be any, One whose bliss it is to deliver things...). 

She blissfully paints as Her heart leads Her, spending as much time as She chooses - She has no deadline - in completing Her work.  Once She is satisfied that the painting is done, She photographs it and emails the picture to Her "followers."  She may have a small list or a very large list.  She may post the picture on websites to build Her list of followers (Her reputation). 

Those who like and want Her painting will contact Her and then She may ask questions, seeking the highest appreciation of Her work (Her "payment" in the form of appreciation).  Eventually, She decides on the recipient of Her piece, sending it via robot to the One She feels most appreciates Her efforts. 

Those who appreciate Her work leave glowing comments at Her site... 

The resources are not the base of the economy; the social aspects of reputation, appreciation, name recognition, lauds, Self-satisfaction, and so on are what the "economy" will be based on.  Though resources are needed to facilitate abundance, they are not the basis of economy in abundance. 

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Permalink Reply by Amaterasu Solar on March 16, 2012 at 10:18am

Not "new age" at all.  The end result of 50 years of economic and social scrutiny, combined with the experiences which give Me certainty that overunity ("free energy") tech exists and is hidden and suppressed.  (See My blog and petition for a description of how I know electrogravitics both produces overunity and is hidden in black projects - both linked above in several of My posts.)

I have also studied emergence, chaos (which differs from randomness in that there is an infolded, or underlying, structure in chaos), fractals (society fractalizes out of a small seed set of parameters, one of which has always been energy scarcity), the phenomenon of "free," exemplified in Linux, how People behave in situations where money is meaningless (emergencies and such), and other sundry elements.

"New Age" is essentially a faith-based concept.  What I present is based on study, synthesis, and knowledge.  If Humans were not twisted by the growth of the root of all evil (the LOVE of money) out of the soil (money itself) in which it grows, Humans would prove to be quite beautiful and loving.  If this were not so, society would fail to function at all, even in the jungle created by the growth of and promotion of the root of all evil.

Please read My petition and My blog.  (I'll link again here.)

Blog:  http://12160.info/profiles/blog/list?user=140qdp6r9v238

Petition:  http://www.change.org/petitions/us-military-release-the-technology-...

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Permalink Reply by suzie on March 16, 2012 at 11:18am

@Amaterasu..  the need for some kind of compensation if not money or a trade what?  The satisfaction of doing it? what is the trade off for all the people who will do all the heavy lifting.  satisfaction? a chicken in a pot? A society doesn't appear out of no where.  for instance someone will have to make all the ipads what is there reward?  who will supply all the parts? someone will have to do all the farming what is there reward? who will supply all there tools?  someone will have to build the roads and bridges what is there reward? who will supply what they need to do it? And are you suggesting no one will ever want more than they will be allowed to have? who will enforce the law and if someone get the idea that they want to be different or they want more of something,  the prisons will fill up quickly. will that be satisfying?  what if someone wants another child and it is against the rules?  will that be there pleasure and satisfaction? and if you think the idea that some people will not always want more than they are allowed to have in your utopia your not being logical.. what is the motivation?  The sheer pleasure of it? Our system is broken but that is because of too much power in the hands of too many dishonest people. How do you get the world to suddenly decide to be honest?  There are cures for diseases and cheap energy that would change the world ..   There is so much corruption it is sickening and i understand the need to seek a solution.. it is extremely frustrating.  I am not personally attacking you or the idea i am just suggesting that on the surface this idea sounds wonderful but humanity is so complex and you can't get people at a PTA meeting to agree on what kind of coolaide to serve.  Diversity of ideas and the freedom to have many different ways to go about living in communities without government interference as long as you do not do harm anyone was the original intent of america .. It was a shinning example for over 100yrs until globalist with BIG IDEAS and dreams of control ruined it..  the idea of getting rid of profit motive is an old one getting rid of government control is an old one too..  FREEDOM  has been the cry throughout time we had it once .. Ben Franklin said we were given a republic if we could keep it ..  i am suggesting we lost it a long time ago and no one noticed, we have no idea how freeing that would be because we have not had it in our lifetimes ..  the battle is in the mind and hearts of men, there is a spiritual battle that is also going un-noticed..   Utopian theory is fascinating but illogical IMHO 

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Permalink Reply by Amaterasu Solar on March 16, 2012 at 12:44pm

suzie...  ROBOTS will do the heavy lifting.  And anyOne whose bliss is to do that lifting.  ROBOTS will build the electronics.  And anyOne whose bliss it is to create those electronics.  ROBOTS will supply the parts.  ROBOTS can farm, and do all necessary work no One WANTS to do.  ROBOTS will supply tools for ROBOTS, build bridges, ...  And anyOne whose bliss it is...etc.

EveryOne may have all They want.  There is no "allowed to have."  You are thinking in scarcity terms, communistic terms.  One "pie" split evenly.  Abundance is a giant warehouse full of pies from which each may have as much or as little as One chooses.

The only Laws are three:

Do not willfully hurt or kill another Being ("Being," cap the "B," is sentient, sapient...)

Do not willfully take or damage another Being's property

Do not willfully defraud another Being.

Our system is broken because We retain (unnecessarily) the soil (money) in which the root of all evil (the LOVE of money) grows.  Remove that soil and the root cannot grow.

You ask, "How do you get the world to suddenly decide to be honest?"  I don't have to.  Add free energy and remove the cost of energy all down the production line and things will get cheaper and cheaper.  Robots to do the things We don't want to do will become affordable, and things will get cheaper and cheaper.  At some point, all cost of energy will be removed.  At that point the resources are free for all.

Virtually all "dishonesty" deals with money issues - except in interpersonal relationships where money is NOT the issue (very frequently it is), and nope.  No solution for interpersonal dishonesty ("I did not have sex with that woman...").

All We have to get anyOne to agree on is:

1. Releasing the overunity ("free energy") tech
2. Adopting the three Laws

Beyond that We are all free to congregate with Those of like mind - or live as hermits, live at any level of technology and abundance We choose, believe whatever We want as a religion, contribute to the betterment of the planet - or not - as We choose, do what brings Us the greatest pleasure - within those three Laws, be controlled by no One except where Our behavior breaks the three Laws.

Meanwhile, waste will diminish greatly.  Food presently thrown out because it didn't sell (hundreds of thousands of TONS of food a MONTH) in distributing by profit and not need will be consumed instead of discarded.  Products will be made to last rather than break so as to ensure future sales (We can create lightbulbs that work for at least 100 years - witness http://www.centennialbulb.org/), "theft protection" packaging will be unnecessary, cures will not be suppressed to make money for the pharmaceutical companies, wars would not be incited to profit the war profiteers, governance (as opposed to "government") can occur stigmergicly (http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0605/03-elliott.php) because there in no profit in being dishonest.

Yes, freedom is what We want - freedom from all the ills We see before Us now.  And virtually all those ills are created by the LOVE of money.

Humanity has never, in known, recorded history, had the option of both free energy AND robotics.  It is brand new territory.

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Permalink Reply by suzie on March 16, 2012 at 1:04pm

WHAT IF THE ROBOTS WANT SOME BLISS?

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